Posted on 11/29/2022 10:39:08 AM PST by Timber Rattler
Russian forces have largely stopped deploying as battalion tactical groups because the formations have proved ineffective, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.
In its latest intelligence update on Tuesday, the ministry said that while “the BTG concept has played a major part in Russian military doctrine for the last ten years” it has proven unsuccessful in the kind of high-intensity fighting seen in Ukraine.
A battalion tactical group (BTG) is a temporary formation bringing together troops and equipment from different units to complete particular operational objectives.
The Russian army is believed to have deployed about 115 battalion tactical groups to Ukraine, with each comprising hundreds of troops supported by tanks and artillery.
According to the MoD, the formations are “integrated with a full range of supporting sub-units, including armour, reconnaissance and (in a departure from usual Western practice) artillery”.
But several weaknesses in the concept have been revealed during the “high intensity, large-scale combat” of the war in Ukraine, the ministry said.
They criticised Russia’s distribution of its artillery, saying a lack of concentrated firepower has become a hindrance to the army.
“Decentralised distribution of artillery has not allowed Russia to fully leverage its advantage in numbers of guns; and few BTG commanders have been empowered to flexibly exploit opportunities in the way the BTG model was designed to promote,” the MoD said.
The MoD also singled out the “relatively small allocation of combat infantry” in the system, which “has often proved insufficient".
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
“Took the Russians nine months to figure out that their “New Look” BTGs were ridiculously undermanned and undergunned”
I know right? /s
‘Ukrainian General estimates Kiev’s losses at hundreds of thousands since Feb’
https://tass.com/politics/1501881
“War and Regrets in Ukraine - at least 400,000 Ukrainian battlefield casualties including 100,000 soldiers killed in action”
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/war-and-regrets-in-ukraine/
“The irretrievable losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of October 20, 2022 amounted to 402,000 people , of which 387,000 were killed...”
https://t.me/nologica/5535
‘Putin: losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reach the ratio of one to seven or one to eight’
https://ria.ru/20221027/vsu-1827349540.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop
“Only 1 out of 13 Ukrainian Servicemen Survives. They Even Do Not See Russians, just Sea of Fire”
https://rumble.com/v1molmc-only-1-out-of-13-ukrainian-servicemen-survives.-wokenato-even-do-not-see-ru.html
“The average lifespan of a Ukrainian mobilized recruit now is approximately 10 days — from the time he is grabbed off the street to the time he falls on the battlefield.
Foreign mercenaries—which by and large have become regular Polish and Romanian (and other NATO countries’) troops masquerading as “volunteers” — loath the idea of being used as cannon fodder and behave as regular colonial expeditionary forces.”
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/17146
Battalion level formations are simply not big enough to be effective on thier own. The Russians have been forced to cobble together larger units from almost the beginning to accomplish tactical tasks.
This is just formal recognition of a process that started on day one of this war.
The question that i will like to see answered is what size unit do the Russians and Ukranians settle on as the most effective combined arms team. I have long believed that the U.S. Army shift from a division basis (10-17k) to a “Brigade Combat Team” (2500-5500)was short sighted.
Theoretically, these were supposed to be “plug-and-play” formations, however in practice they were less flexible and chronically short on low-density soldier (engineers, intelligence, etc). We lost the division Cavalry Squadron, a robust unit with organic armor and attack helos. And replaced it with small Humvee mounted brigade cav squadrons. We lost the division level general support artillery battalion, ADA battalion, aviation brigade, division support command and everything else that made a division an independent unit that you could task organize as required to conduct any conceivable mission.
The brigades are large enough to get into trouble, but not big or robust enough to get out of it.
Volksgrenadier-Divisions ??? That is what it sounds like. If they are at that point, we might as well invade Russia, and grab their natural resources. The Chinese can grab the east end. I say this in jest, but there are crazies out there who may be thinking it, no matter how much the nuclear threat is or what the cost of lives may be.
What do you mean the BTG were “ineffective”??
I was told the Ukrainian army is pathetic, could never beat the Russians, blah blah blah...
So these Russian BTGs must REALLY SUCK if they cant beat the Ukrainian army armed with pickle jars.....
Considering the number of NATO forces involved in the conflict, I’d say Russia is doing pretty well.
“Considering the number of NATO forces involved in the conflict, I’d say Russia is doing pretty well.”
Why don’t you provide us with the breakdown of those “NATO forces,” including numbers and deployment? I’d be particularly interested in knowing the number and disposition of those “NATO forces” that are actually involved in combat.
Providing supplies and training to Ukrainians is not going to cut it. We have done that for generations around the world, in one context or another.
Wow! Ukraine forces have been nearly wiped out by the invading Russian Army!
Which is why their 3 day war is going on 8 months with the Russian army retreating on several fronts and stalled on others.
Sounds legit.
BTW, the latest reports from Moscow say that Bigfoot and Elvis are fighting with the Ukrainians.
Wow! Ukraine forces have been nearly wiped out by the invading Russian Army!
Which is why their 3 day war is going on 8 months with the Russian army retreating on several fronts and stalled on others.
Sounds legit.
BTW, the latest reports from Moscow say that Bigfoot and Elvis are fighting with the Ukrainians.
Really? You’re trying to support Russia by disagreeing with Russia?
Wow.
and, all the world can see the maps indicating the designations and locations of all the BTG’s
Another reason for abandoning the concept is that few are actually in condition to fight as a unit. Overall command and control has dissipated to the point where organizational command is no longer feasible
Agreed, if Vlad is doing so poorly why is Ukraine sitting in the dark, manufacturing, exports, currency, infrastructure in ruins? There is much more to war than battlefield lines on a map- Ukraine has been de- industrialized, de- energized, de- populated ( 6-8 million more Ukies have left Ukraine due to de- energization) and basically spent- a western welfare nation dependent on life support from a bankrupt West.
….and Vlad says Checkmate again, and again…and the corrupted Biden regime can do nothing about it…
The handwriting is on the wall: Ukraine 1991-2023 RIP
If them BTRs are so ineffective, blah, blah, why the Ukrainian KIA and casualty numbers so high?
Russian to Ukraine kill ratios of 8:1 upwards of 12+:1.
Yeah.
Okie dokie.
Carry your circle logic arse back to the bridge from which you crawled from under, kthx.
BTR/BTGs
“Wow! Ukraine forces have been nearly wiped out by the invading Russian Army!”
Might want to look up how many Ukrainian troops there were prior to or at the time the war/conflict started before running your jaybird ass mouth. you think?
Russia never deployed BTGs - it was an embarrassing fiction made up by western militaries, based on a proposal in 2012 by the current Russian Defense Minister and soundly rejected by the Russian Ground Forces and National Guard at the time.
BTGs are suitable for only small conflicts, not large. They could be used in operations like the invasion of Georgia because they have the needed flexibility in a small area. But the BTG units size is too small for invasions of large countries like Ukraine where massed troops play an important role.
After 2012, Russia began to deploy the standard ground force nomenclature: Army, Division, Brigade, and Battalion. After the retreat in April-May 2022, they consolidated surviving units into temporary Battle Groups or BG (72nd Brigade).
Since the mobilization filled out the depleted units, the BG designation has been dropped, and units are designated by the standard names.
That would be zero.
By the way, does the real world performance of BTGs bring into question what Col. Macgregor supported in Breaking the Phalanx? Before he became a Russian shill?
“”On cue, the Putin wing spams the thread with the same old comments, completely ignoring what the thread is about.””
That form of trolling can destroy a forum since it becomes useless and a waste of time to bother with.
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