Trump's yearslong crusade against Ukraine has finally come home to roost as Republicans call for abandoning Kyiv

In a phone call with Ukraine's president this month, US President Joe Biden pledged continued solidarity with Ukraine as it battles Russia's military invasion and illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory.

But that level of support could be in jeopardy if the GOP gains control of the House of Representatives in this year's midterm elections.

In April, 10 House Republicans voted against a bill allowing the Biden administration to more easily lend military equipment to Ukraine. The following month, 57 House Republicans voted "no" on a nearly $40 billion aid package for Ukraine. Both measures ultimately passed the chamber.

SmokingJoe: "The Chinese have a population of a massive 1.4 billion and by far the biggest military on the planet.
You think tiny Taiwan can stand Chinese military might?"

The same could be said of Russia and Ukraine, and look what happened!
Indeed, the Russian army in some ways is/ was more capable than China's, for one major factor, they have far more experience in actual warfare.

Also, consider, how did we get beat in Vietnam or Afghanistan?
Certainly not by a superior military, but rather by what's called "asymmetrical warfare" -- meaning, you don't attack your enemy where he's strong, but rather where he's weakest, in our case, our politics.

All military people, and many others too, study the ancient Chinese military genius of Sun Tsu, since such ancient principles still apply.
Therefore, much of what we see for public consumption is mere shadow boxing intended to hide, rather than reveal, what's truly going on.

But some things are real and deadly, including nukes.
International political theater should never become so intense it begins to include such WMDs in reality.

The same could be said of Russia and Ukraine, and look what happened!

Yeah?
Whats the population of Russia as compared to the mighty Chinese population?
And whats the Russian GDP as compared to the mighty Chinese GDP?
They are not even on he same planet.
Don't make me laugh.

Indeed, the Russian army in some ways is/ was more capable than China's, for one major factor, they have far more experience in actual warfare.

Yeah?
So tell me, whens the last time American troops actually fought Chinese troops?
That was during the Korean war when the Chinese helped North Korea to push back the American troops. The Chinese just made a movie about it to celebrate their great victories in those battles over America then.
And China was far less economically and technologically advanced than they are today.
You are going to need to face reality for a change.

Also, consider, how did we get beat in Vietnam or Afghanistan?
Certainly not by a superior military, but rather by what's called “asymmetrical warfare” — meaning, you don't attack your enemy where he's strong, but rather where he's weakest, in our case, our politics.

With a population of a staggering 1.4 billion compared to Taiwan's tiny 24 million and a humongous Chinese economy, it won't even be close.
China will wipe out the Taiwanese if they fight, and go home to dinner by the following week.
Again, Ukraine will have little to no effect on what China does in Taiwan. China will do what they like.

Matters to the whole world, especially us.
Matters because “rules based order” is a much happier world than “Putin-Xi-Kim-Muhla ordered basics.”

Nope.
Wouldn't make much difference to America. As long as we keep trading with China that is.

US naval power has kept Chi-Coms from doing in Taiwan what they did in Korea, Vietnam and Ind

How'd this “mighty” US naval power work out in Afganistan, Korea and Vietnam?
Don't forget China is right next door to Taiwan, with the mightiest manufacturing economy on the planet.
You think you can stop them do you?
Chuckle.

China's economic power is 100% dependent on stolen technology, slave labor to produce vast exports, and imports of critical raw materials like oil and food.
If cut off from those, China's economy would quickly collapse.

China will get ail the oil and natural gas they want from Russia through pipelines across their borders.
And what makes you think other Asian countries would stop supplying raw materials to the mighty Chinese economy when almost ail of them have Refused to impose any economic sanctions on Russia now?
Don't forget China controls most of the raw materials and the manufacturing of vital batteries for EV’s. and makes most of the consumer electronics we use in America.
You are not going to look so good picking a fight with them.

No, all post-war borders & conditions were set by **agreement** among the allied powers.
Stalin had no legal right to unilaterally change the terms of agreement.
To do so, as in his 1948 Berlin Blockade, was an act of war against the western allies.

As far as East Germany and East Berlin were concerned, Russia had as much right to be there as America and the UK.
And the Russians could refuse to allow the Americans to travel through East Germany to East Berlin which they did.

I remember it.

So do I.

Khrushchev's “back down” was strictly for public consumption.

Nope.
Khrushchev DID back down.
And Russian warships DID turn round and go home, instead of firing at the American warships.
We were lucky the Russians exhibited common sense when Kennedy went crazy, or we'd all the be dead by now.
Don't rewrite history.
And don't gaslight.

SmokingJoe: "Whats the population of Russia as compared to the mighty Chinese population?
And whats the Russian GDP as compared to the mighty Chinese GDP?
They are not even on he same planet.
Don't make me laugh."

You might remember reading about the US Civil War, when a unit of, say, 1,500 met in battle a unit of, say, 1,000 then, all else being equal, the larger numbers nearly always prevailed.
Today, not so much.
Today technology dominates numbers like never before -- who has it, who knows how to use it, these things win battles far more than numbers of soldiers.

So, it might surprise you to learn that China still buys (I mean steals) it's highest tech weapons from Russia.
Yes, those days may be ending -- may have ended if China already stole all the military secrets Russia first stole from the West -- I don't know.
But I do know that most of China's advanced weapons started life as Russian weapons.

So, to the degree Russia still out-techs China, then Chinese numbers are not so important.

SmokingJoe: "So tell me, whens the last time American troops actually fought Chinese troops?
That was during the Korean war when the Chinese helped North Korea to push back the American troops.
The Chinese just made a movie about it to celebrate their great victories in those battles over America then.
And China was far less economically and technologically advanced than they are today.
You are going to need to face reality for a change."

As for the Chinese movie, I don't normally pay attention to enemy propaganda, and you probably shouldn't either -- unless, of course, you study it for good advice?

The US Army in Korea, in 1950, began as a sad reflection of the powerhouse which won the 2nd World War.
Poorly equipped, trained, motivated & lead our guys performed poorly against first the North Koreans and then the Chi-Coms.
Yes, numbers in those days did still matter, a lot, and Communist forces outnumbered westerners overall by 50%, on occasion by much more.
Then American political leaders were not willing to do what it would take to win, outright.
They were satisfied with a stalemate, and so it was.

SmokingJoe: "With a population of a staggering 1.4 billion compared to Taiwan's tiny 24 million and a humongous Chinese economy, it won't even be close.
China will wipe out the Taiwanese if they fight, and go home to dinner by the following week."

Only if Taiwanese, like Afghans, refuse to fight.
But I think they'll prove more like Ukrainians and put up a stiff resistance.

And I don't think mainland China will entirely escape damage.

Remember, unlike Russians who could just stroll into Ukraine, Chi-Coms must cross 100 miles of ocean to reach Taiwan, which means they'll need ships, boats & aircraft for every soldier invading Taiwan.
All of those can be sunk or shot down, with dozens or hundreds of lives lost.
Suddenly what matters then is not the numbers of people Chi-Coms can throw at Taiwan, but rather the numbers of anti-air and anti-ship missiles Taiwan can throw back.

So, after decades, I'm guessing Taiwan has quite a few of those stockpiled.

As a result, it might not be the cakewalk for Chi-Coms you imagine.

SmokingJoe: "Again, Ukraine will have little to no effect on what China does in Taiwan.
China will do what they like."

A good chance the Chi-Coms have learned something useful from Russians in Ukraine.
But so has everyone else.

BJK: "Matters because “rules based order” is a much happier world than “Putin-Xi-Kim-Muhla ordered basics.”

SmokingJoe: "Nope.
Wouldn't make much difference to America.
As long as we keep trading with China that is."

So you want to not only turn world leadership over to Chi-Coms, but you also want to thank them for taking it off our hands. What a guy!

One thing's for sure: if we keep trading with China using Xi-snake rules, it will not go well for us.

SmokingJoe: "How'd this “mighty” US naval power work out in Afganistan, Korea and Vietnam?
Don't forget China is right next door to Taiwan, with the mightiest manufacturing economy on the planet.
You think you can stop them do you?
Chuckle."

The US Navy did its job in Afghanistan, Korea and Vietnam.
The outcomes of those wars were not a function of the Navy.
They were a function of politics.

"Mighty manufacturing" will not help the Chi-coms if technological countermeasures defeat their ships & planes in route to invading Taiwan.

SmokingJoe: "China will get ail the oil and natural gas they want from Russia through pipelines across their borders. And what makes you think other Asian countries would stop supplying raw materials to the mighty Chinese economy when almost ail of them have Refused to impose any economic sanctions on Russia now?"

141 countries voted against Russia's invading Ukraine in the UN.
45 countries imposed sanctions on Russia, including from Asia: Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand.
29 European and North American countries have sent military aid to Ukraine.
There are now more sanctions on Russia (~5,000) than on Iran, Venezuela, Myanmar and Cuba combined.

India has long considered Russia it's friend against invading Chi-Coms.

SmokingJoe: "Don't forget China controls most of the raw materials and the manufacturing of vital batteries for EV’s. and makes most of the consumer electronics we use in America.
You are not going to look so good picking a fight with them."

Taiwan is the source of our most sophisticated computer chips, the Chi-Coms make cheap stuff for things like kitchen appliances.
Anyone can make those, we should make more of our own.

As for EV batteries, there's no reason the US can't make them, except that it their true costs were known, nothing would make sense to use them in.
Chi-Coms make those batteries for leverage, and our Democrats are happy to let them have it.

SmokingJoe: "As far as East Germany and East Berlin were concerned, Russia had as much right to be there as America and the UK.
And the Russians could refuse to allow the Americans to travel through East Germany to East Berlin which they did."

All that was covered in **agreements** made in 1945, and nobody then agreed to let Stalin blockade or threaten Berlin -- indeed that's one reason the US, UK and France had their own sectors inside Berlin -- to make certain western allies interests were protected there.

The moral equivalency is exact -- if it was an "act of war" to blockade Cuba in 1962 then it was also an "act of war" to blockade Berlin in 1948-9.
But if you wish to argue that one was "not really" an act of war, then neither was the other.

SmokingJoe: "Khrushchev DID back down.
And Russian warships DID turn round and go home, instead of firing at the American warships.
We were lucky the Russians exhibited common sense when Kennedy went crazy, or we'd all the be dead by now. Don't rewrite history.
And don't gaslight."

Says one of Free Republic's highest scoring gaslighters.

The fact is that Khrushchev got exactly what he wanted in the first place, which was removal of certain US nuclear missiles from Turkey.
Everything else was just drama & show for public consumption.

The fact is those missiles in Cuba were vulnerable and so had no real value except as bargaining chips, which is exactly how Khrushchev used them.

I'm not complaining, unlike Russia's current leader, Khrushchev could be highly dramatic, but he was no madman.

Taiwan is the source of our most sophisticated computer chips, the Chi-Coms make cheap stuff for things like kitchen appliances.

Yes.
And we will continue to import those chips whether from China or Taiwan, like we import iPhone's and most consumer electronics from China.

“No reason” apart from its too expensive to make in America and the Chinese are more efficient at making them and consumer electronics.
No one is stopping America from making a lot of stuff, except we just don't make them and we have the biggest trade deficits on the planet.

All that was covered in **agreements** made in 1945, and nobody then agreed to let Stalin blockade or threaten Berlin — indeed that's one reason the US, UK and France had their own sectors inside Berlin — to make certain western allies interests were protected there.

Again, Stalin was within his rights to deny access to East Germany for the Western countries at the time.

The fact is that Khrushchev got exactly what he wanted in the first place, which was removal of certain US nuclear missiles from Turkey.

Khrushchev wanted his nuclear missiles in Cuba. He did NOT get that.
He backed down to avoid a nuclear war.

SmokingJoe: "Fortunately, neither you or me has the power to stop China from becoming a superpower.
China will inevitably become a superpower and there is nothing you can do about it."

Sure, anybody can redefine the word "superpower" so that China matches it even today.
Is Russia a "superpower"? Depends on how you define the word.
What about the European Union and NATO? Again, how do you define "superpower".
In the western Pacific, US military alliances with Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Australia & New Zealand could represent a "superpower" easily equivalent to the Chi-Coms.

If you, SmokingJoe, wish to call China, or Ceylon or Andora "superpowers", that's your right of free speech.
But the higher you set the bar for "superpower" status, then the fewer actual powers can meet it.

The fact remains that today China's "global reach" in no way compares to the world's genuine superpower, the United States.

If we cavalierly throw that away just because SmokingJoe stands in awe and trembling before the "mighty" Chi-Coms, we will not be happy with the consequences of our perfidy.

SmokingJoe: "We will keep trading with China whether you like it or not.
China is too powerful in world trade for anyone to ignore, let along imports addicted America."

We will continue trading with China for exactly so long as China remains peaceful and civilized.
The day they invade Taiwan, that will all end.
There will be no ocean or air-transported trade with Chi-Coms, period, none, zero -- count on that.

By sea & air China will be blockaded, nothing will come in or go out.
Them, even if Russia can supply China with all its raw material needs, the Chi-Com economy will be sorely tested.

And that's even before we consider that Taiwan will not be helpless in terms of inflicting harm on Chi-Com infrastructure -- bridges, dams, sea & airports, etc.

So, sure, if you so desperately wish to define Chi-Coms as a "superpower", go right ahead.
But they are far from indestructible.

BJK: "The US Navy did its job in Afghanistan, Korea and Vietnam..."

SmokingJoe: "By losing those wars?"

The US military did not lose those wars, indeed, arguably they won every major battle.
Decisions on how & when to withdraw were made by our politicians, not military commanders.

SmokingJoe: "In effect most Asian countries, including the powerful China an India, with a combined nearly over 36% of the world's population, have NOT imposed sanctions on Russia."

Indians have long allied with Russia to help protect India from China.
Russia, China and India GDPs combined total around $24 trillion per year.
China's GDP alone is $18 trillion.

The US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand GDPs total around $34 trillion per year.
The European Union's combined GDP is around $18 trillion.
The combined GDP of western oriented countries (including India) surrounding China is $18 trillion.

Total world GDP is circa $94 trillion.

Today there's a great opportunity for the US to win friends and influence people in India against China.
India against Russia?
Probably never going to happen.

SmokingJoe: "Yes. And we will continue to import those chips whether from China or Taiwan, like we import iPhone's and most consumer electronics from China."

We will continue to trade with Chi-Coms for exactly so long as they are peaceful and civilized.
If they go berserker on us, then their gravy-train will end, immediately.

SmokingJoe: "“No reason” apart from its too expensive to make in America and the Chinese are more efficient at making them and consumer electronics.
No one is stopping America from making a lot of stuff, except we just don't make them and we have the biggest trade deficits on the planet."

The Chi-Coms are willing to absorb the very high costs of producing EV type batteries because they believe those will give China leverage over US & allies.
And they are right, just so long as Chi-Coms remain peaceful and civilized -- in other words, just the opposite of their born revolutionary nature.
When Chi-Coms revert to their true natures, then their gravy trains will end.

SmokingJoe: "Again, Stalin was within his rights to deny access to East Germany for the Western countries at the time."

It was an "act of war" to the same degree as the US 1962 blockade of Cuba.
Sorry, but you don't get to change your word definitions in mid-sentence.

SmokingJoe: "Khrushchev wanted his nuclear missiles in Cuba.
He did NOT get that.
He backed down to avoid a nuclear war."

Khrushchev didn't want nuclear war (he was not insane!), and Soviet missiles in Cuba were irrelevant to Khrushchev --he knew it.
What truly mattered were US nuclear missiles in Turkey threatening the USSR, and he got those removed.

All the rest was just show for public consumption -- to make JFK look like a winner when in fact he lost a lot.

Sure, anybody can redefine the word “superpower” so that China matches it even today.
Is Russia a “superpower”? Depends on how you define the word.

Except China has a GDP bigger than the entire EU right now.
And Chinese GDP is growing much faster than the EU economy which is headed to recession land tight now from Russia cutting off natural gas supplies, even as China gets oil and gas from Russia at lower prices.
If you think China is like Jamaica, you are living in clod cuckoooland.
Chinese GDP will inevitably overtake US GDP.
They are growing faster than America, produce vastly more engineers every year, and have huge trade surpluses with America.

The fact remains that today China's “global reach” in no way compares to the world's genuine superpower, the United States.

Yeah?
So tell me, who has more power in Africa, America or China?
Who has built all these new roads and railways in Africa over the last 30 years?
China.
What has America done lately in Africa? Not much.

You are blowing too much hot air. Chuckle.
So tell me, just how's the US “sanctions” against Russia working out for the US economy?
Oh wait, the US economy is in recession, we have the highest inflation rate in 40 years, food and gas and energy prices have skyrocketed, an the Democrats are headed for a heavy defeat in November.
And Biden keeps screaming about “Putin's inflation”. That still didn't work. The Dems will lose anyways.
So how do you think a war with the mighty Chinese economic machine going to work out for America?
The Chinese literally make most consumer goods we use, plus these days, they make most of the pharmaceutical drugs we use as well.
Not a good idea to fight for America to fight an economic war with them.

By sea & air China will be blockaded, nothing will come in or go out.
Them, even if Russia can supply China with all its raw material needs, the Chi-Com economy will be sorely tested.

You wanna bet on that? Chuckle

We will continue to trade with Chi-Coms for exactly so long as they are peaceful and civilized.
If they go berserker on us, then their gravy-train will end, immediately.

Yeah?
Just how do you propose to instantly replace the VAST imports we make from China?

The Chi-Coms are willing to absorb the very high costs of producing EV type batteries because they believe those will give China leverage over US & allies.
And they are right, just so long as Chi-Coms remain peaceful and civilized — in other words, just the opposite of their born revolutionary nature.
When Chi-Coms revert to their true natures, then their gravy trains will end

You keep making threats you cannot make good.
Most Chinese manufactured products are sold within China and in Asia. You vastly over estimate American power in China.
America will suffer more from any trade war than China will and they can keep It going longer.

It was an “act of war” to the same degree as the US 1962 blockade of Cuba.
Sorry, but you don't get to change your word definitions in mid-sentence.

Nope.
Not even close.
Totally different circumstances,
The US blockade of Cuba in 1962 was a clear at of war.
No question about that.

Khrushchev didn't want nuclear war (he was not insane!), and Soviet missiles in Cuba were irrelevant to Khrushchev —he knew it.

It was so “irrelevant” that Khrushchev spent a lot of money and risked a nuclear war to place nuclear missiles there?
Just listen to yourself for a minute and see if you make any sense will ya?
Chuckle.

SmokingJoe: "Except China has a GDP bigger than the entire EU right now. And Chinese GDP is growing much faster than the EU economy which is headed to recession land tight now from Russia cutting off natural gas supplies, even as China gets oil and gas from Russia at lower prices."

China has roughly three times the population of the European Union.
China's GGP is $18 trillion, the EU GDP is $18 trillion.

Is one economy growing faster than the other?
Well... the EU will have Russia related problems, but China has their own problems, such that some experts even claim China is in process of collapsing.
I don't know about that, but I think 100% rose colored glasses regarding China are probably not correct.

SmokingJoe: "If you think China is like Jamaica, you are living in clod cuckoooland.
Chinese GDP will inevitably overtake US GDP.
* They are growing faster than America, produce vastly more engineers every year, and have huge trade surpluses with America."

Jamaica?? Where did that come from?
China's GDP is roughly the same as all the countries surrounding China, from India through Australia to Taiwan, Japan and South Korea -- combined.
China's GDP is about the same as the EU's.
China's GDP is 25% less than the USA and 1/3 less than the combined GDPs of North American countries.
China' GDP is roughly equal to the combined GDPs of every country OUTSIDE the Indo-Pacific Rim, the EU and North America.
China's $18 trillion GDP is roughly 20% of the entire world's GDP of circa $94 trillion.

So China overall is still drop in the bucket-- yes, a big drop, but far from the biggest.
And at least 90% of the non-China drops are America's allies.

SmokingJoe: "Yeah?
So tell me, who has more power in Africa, America or China?
Who has built all these new roads and railways in Africa over the last 30 years?
China.
What has America done lately in Africa? Not much."

You point is well taken, but the combined GDP of all African countries is about $3 trillion or roughly 3% of global GDP.
So, I'm certain African countries can well use all the help they get from China, but combined they are still a quite small drop in the world’s economic bucket.

Out of time now, will be back later...

BJK: "The day they invade Taiwan, that will all end.
There will be no ocean or air-transported trade with Chi-Coms, period, none, zero — count on that."

SmokingJoe: "You are blowing too much hot air.
Chuckle. So tell me, just how's the US “sanctions” against Russia working out for the US economy?"

So before we continue, let's review your over-use of the word "mighty" -- consider: "mighty warrior" refers to not just his size or armor, but also to having defeated worthy opponents in battle.
For two examples -- the Axis militaries (German, Japanese) in 1941 could well be called "mighty" since they had won every major battle & campaign.
The allied militaries (Soviet, US, UK & others) in 1945 were certainly "mighty", having won not just battles & campaigns but also the World War.

But how does SmokingJoe use "mighty"?

post #165 "mighty Russian nuclear arsenal"
post #191 "mighty Soviet Union collapsed"
post #202 "mighty Chinese population"
post #202 "mighty Chinese GDP"
post #203 "mighty Chinese population"
post #207 "mighty China"
post #212 "mighty Chinese economic machine"

So I don't think "mighty" applies to anything Chinese -- military, economic or population.
Militarily the Chi-Coms look better, look good on paper, but they've fought no battles & won no wars recently, so they're "impressive" maybe, but "mighty", not so much, not yet.

Economically, one problem with authoritarian regimes is that underlings always tell their bosses just what the bosses want to hear, true or not.
In the case of Chinese economics, there are solid reasons for believing underlings have exaggerated their annual growth numbers, year after year, to the point where today, China's real economy is only 40% of what's claimed.
That means, instead of $18 trillion per year, the real number is closer to $7 trillion -- still a huge economy, still #2 in the world, but now smaller than the EU's $18 trillion, smaller than the $18 trillion combined of Indo-Pacific countries from India to Japan, smaller than the $24 trillion US economy, and smaller than the $18 trillion from all other economies combined.
Not so "mighty" after all.

Finally, China's population may also be exaggerated and actually falling, which means China has fewer people than India's 1.4 billion population.

Now... where were we?
Right -- what will happen to Chi-Com's world trade when they invade Taiwan?
Well, it's obvious -- the leaders of the 90% of the world's economy which is non-Chi-Com will announce "no trade with China", period, to include the seizure of ships going to & from Chinese ports, and the removal of landing & takeoff rights for aircraft to or from Chi-Comnia.
Or at least some reasonable facsimile of such policy.

Will it hurt the West? Oh, yeah, big time, but we should not have been dependent on them in the first place, should we?
Will it stop the Chi-Coms? Not by itself, but it will hurt China and make extended high-tempo military operations increasingly difficult for them.

SmokingJoe: "Oh wait, the US economy is in recession, we have the highest inflation rate in 40 years, food and gas and energy prices have skyrocketed, an the Democrats are headed for a heavy defeat in November.
And Biden keeps screaming about “Putin's inflation”.
That still didn't work.
The Dems will lose anyways.
So how do you think a war with the mighty Chinese economic machine going to work out for America?"

There's no doubt, we've got a mess right now and any two-bit tin-horn Hitler wannabe dictator could well decide: "now's the time to act" on his smaller neighbors, while the US & others are preoccupied with other matters.

But I don't think Taiwan will be so easy to overrun and the Chi-Coms themselves will suffer from the attempt.

SmokingJoe: "The Chinese literally make most consumer goods we use, plus these days, they make most of the pharmaceutical drugs we use as well.
Not a good idea to fight for America to fight an economic war with them."

Your suggestion here that there are no equally good alternate sources for any of those commodities, that's ridiculous, or should be.
I think the world is full of countries eager to manufacture products the Chinese are currently making, and at least some of those products we should start making for ourselves again.
I would even favor a law which says it's illegal for US companies to be 100% dependent on Chinese sources for **ANYTHING**.
Then let the Chi-Coms have their temper-tantrum over Taiwan.

As of today, the world's economy can get along without China far better than Chi-Coms can get along without the world.

BJK: "By sea & air China will be blockaded, nothing will come in or go out.
Then, even if Russia can supply China with all its raw material needs, the Chi-Com economy will be sorely tested."

SmokingJoe: "You wanna bet on that? Chuckle"

You might remember, the word Pres. Kennedy used to describe his actions toward Cuba was not "blockade", but rather "quarantine" -- because he wasn't blockading anything going or coming from Cuba except Russian navy ships.
Another word often used is "embargo", again because it's more a legal than military action.
Similar words: moratorium, prohibition, sanction, restrict & boycott.

In 2020 foreign trade -- exports and imports -- represented 35% of China's GDP -- US foreign trade is 10% of our GDP.
If that ends, then China's corrected GDP will fall from circa $7 trillion to around $4.5 trillion, which curiously, is about the same as India's GDP today.

SmokingJoe: "Yeah?
Just how do you propose to instantly replace the VAST imports we make from China?"

Total US imports & exports represent about 10% of U.S. GDP.
Total US imports & exports with China represent about 3% of our GDP.
We'll find other sources and customers.

SmokingJoe: "You keep making threats you cannot make good.
Most Chinese manufactured products are sold within China and in Asia.
You vastly over estimate American power in China."

China's imports & exports make up 35% of China's GDP.
US imports & exports make up 10% of the US GDP.
US imports & exports with China make up 3% of US GDP.
So they need us more than we need them.

More important, if we act in concert with allies, we can end nearly all Chinese trade with the West.
Then China's GDP will fall to the level, roughly, of India, which makes a lot of sense to me.

SmokingJoe: "America will suffer more from any trade war than China will and they can keep It going longer."

Foreign trade represents 10% of US GDP and our biggest trading partners are Canada and Mexico, China is third.
US trade with China represents around 3% of US GDP.
Chi-Com foreign trade represents around 35% of China's GDP and nearly all of that can be stopped by a united Western imposed "embargo" or "quarantine" or "sanctions" if/when China invades Taiwan.

SmokingJoe: "The US blockade of Cuba in 1962 was a clear at of war.
No question about that."

Only in the fantasies of a devoted pro-Communist propagandist.
In reality (you remember reality, right?) Pres. Kennedy didn't even call it a "blockade", but rather a "quarantine" and the obvious reason was, it wasn't a "blockade" on Cuba -- civilian ships to & from Cuba could still come & go as they wished.
Rather the "quarantine" was to prevent Russian navy ships from reaching Cuba.
As such, it was only an "act of war" in the same sense as Stalin's Berlin Blockade of 1948.
So long as nobody started shooting at each other, there was no war.

SmokingJoe: "It was so “irrelevant” that Khrushchev spent a lot of money and risked a nuclear war to place nuclear missiles there?
Just listen to yourself for a minute and see if you make any sense will ya?
Chuckle."

Those Soviet missiles in Cuba were fully exposed and within range of hundreds, if not thousands, of US bombers & fighter-bombers.
In any shooting conflict, they'd all be destroyed within a matter of minutes.
So they had no value to Khrushchev -- none, zero -- except for exactly what he did with them, which was use them as bargaining chips to get US Jupiter missiles -- which could reach Moscow -- removed from Turkey and Italy.

By the way, all those Jupiter missiles were eventually rendered obsolete by US Polaris ballistic missile submarines, beginning with USS George Washington (SSBN-598) around 1960.
So, the Cuban missile crisis not only removed US Jupiter missiles from Turkey & Italy, but it also removed them from service entirely.

SmokingJoe: "Actually, the Chinese chased us out of North Korea in the Korean war, the last war we actually fought against the Chinese."

And that's worth remembering -- for one thing, my dad was there, trapped behind the lines with his evacuation hospital unit, made his hospital's escape by stealing a NoKo train in the dead of night!
Years ago I visited the Korean DMV and right there was an old train engine, said to have been the last to escape the North.
So I guess my dad's evac hospital was not the last one out.

But you may not remember that the Chi-Coms themselves were chased out of North Vietnam in their 1979 war.
Of course, the Vietnamese were fearsome warriors and Chi-Coms have never been back for a Round Two since.

In battles with the Indians in the Himalayan Mountains, Chi-Coms have usually been the bully aggressors, but I heard more recently -- the last couple of years -- the Indians have proved themselves more determined, perhaps, than in the past.

And if we look at Korea today -- the South has twice the population and 50 times the GDP of the North -- those numbers don't look favorable for China.

SmokingJoe: "Don't mess with them."

Nobody wants to "mess" with Chi-Coms.
Everybody wants Chi-Coms to keep their grubby hands off their neighbors, including Taiwan.

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