The ‘bummer’ of the $7,500 electric vehicle tax credit: Its full value may be hard to get

CNBC ^ | 10/15/2022 | Greg Iacurci

[jdsteel]

I see it’s on the list, but I believe the IRS has an income cap now.

[Fresh Wind]

How do you figure that a tax credit for someone else raises your taxes?

If Uncle Sugar gives someone a tax credit of $7,500, that's $7,500 that Uncle Sugar doesn't have to spend on stuff (legitimate expenses, pork projects, and freebies for freeloaders). So to make up the difference, either they cut spending (not bloody likely), increase legislated tax rates (politically unpopular), or print more fake money (the preferred method). But printing fake money fuels inflation, and inflation is a stealth tax because everybody pays more for stuff they want or need.

[DFG]

Updated information on the EV credit:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d

Vehicles Purchased and Delivered between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022 added to the list:

2022

Audi Q5
BMW 330e
BMW X5
Chrysler Pacifica PHEV
Ford Escape PHEV
Ford F Series
Ford Mustang MACH E
Ford Transit Van
Jeep Grand Cherokee PHEV
Jeep Wrangler PHEV
Lincoln Aviator PHEV
Lincoln Corsair Plug-in
Lucid Air
Nissan Leaf
Rivian EDV
Rivian R1S
Rivian R1T
Volvo S60

2023

BMW 330e
Jeep Grand Cherokee PHEV
Jeep Wrangler PHEV
Lincoln Aviator PHEV
Mercedes EQS SUV
Nissan Leaf

[DFG]

AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) limits:

Married Filing Joint (MFJ) : $300,000
Head of Household (HOH) : $225,000
Single : $150,000

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30D

[ConservativeInPA]

Eff off with you EV

[Jacquerie]

Pretty awful when government bribes consumers to purchase the products of a favored industry.

The union of private industry and government is fascism.

[jdsteel]

You seem to harbor a lot of anger toward people for imaginary reasons.

And I’m not “an EV”.

[jdsteel]

“ AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) limits:

Married Filing Joint (MFJ) : $300,000
Head of Household (HOH) : $225,000
Single : $150,000”

Thanks for taking the trouble to look up what I was recollecting.

Yeah, I got a full $7,500 tax credit for my 2021 taxes. I would not be able to do so now.

Way to go, Brandon.

[SheepWhisperer]

infiltration

...just like the leftist loving ukraniacs and before that the poison pushing jabcovidians.

It’s nauseating and ruining this site.

[jdsteel]

Yes, the Mach e is absent that list, as I suspected.

Again, thanks.

[olepap]

No tax credit for Teslas, otherwise I would jump on it.

[TheConservativeTejano]

I know people who get excited about tax credits. They have no idea what that means.

The EV is subsidized by the American taxpaying public.

One more time, there has been no better invention than the internal combustion engine, period.

The Internal Combustion Engine has given the economy of the U.S. a big shot in the arm and yet we are the worst enemy of the internal combustion engine.

Look at how many methods of transportation we are using right at this moment.

This Bozo Vegetable Biden is going the way of the Dodo bird.

[TheConservativeTejano]

I know people who get excited about tax credits. They have no idea what that means.

The EV is subsidized by the American taxpaying public.

One more time, there has been no better invention than the internal combustion engine, period.

The Internal Combustion Engine has given the economy of the U.S. a big shot in the arm and yet we are the worst enemy of the internal combustion engine.

Look at how many methods of transportation we are using right at this moment.

This Bozo Vegetable Biden is going the way of the Dodo bird.

[oldtech]

I think if you have to factor in the time factor for a full charge, then maybe an electrical “fill-up” might cost even more than a gasoline fill-up.

[from occupied ga]

I loath the lies that are used to ram EVs down our throats, but IF they were allowed to compete in the market on their (feeble) merits I would be OK with it. Oh and just for the EV fanboys. Let me run through some facts and how the fanfools distort them.
According to the fanboys EV motors are 85% efficient and ICE are only 30% to 40% efficient at converting chemical energy to motion. What they always leave out is where EVs get their energy. Here is a waterfall of that path:
EV motor 85% efficient, but the motor gets its energy from a battery that’s 95% efficient. The battery gets its energy from a specialized charger that’s 90% efficient. The charger gets its energy from the electrical distribution network which is 94% efficient. The distribution network gets its energy from the transmission network which is 92% efficient, and the transmission gets its energy from the generation mix which is 64% fossil 2% solar 6% wind and the rest nuclear, hydro and other. The fossil part is 33% efficient.

Doing the efficiency you get .85*.95*.90*.94*.92*.33 = 21%. So EVs burn fossil fuel at a bit over half as efficient as ICE engines. However when we take into account only 64% of the US generation is fossil EV efficiency becomes 32% ie. Within the lower efficiency range of ICE engines.

But I’m not done. Figuring that the sun doesn’t shine at night when EVs are mostly charged and the wind doesn’t blow all the time I’ll only give half credit to those “green” sources. That drops EV fossil fuel burning efficiency to 30%.

But wait there’s more! EVs are substantially more massive than ICE powered vehicles which cuts their efficiency downs still further.

So unless you’re buying anEV for the perceived “cool” factor what you’re getting is an inefficient overpriced vehicle with limited range and seriously inconvenient refill capabilities that creates more CO2 per mile than most ICE vehicles. Not that there is anything wrong with CO2 but if you’ve drunk the global warming koolaid this might matter if you weren’t too dumb to do the math.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

You focused on efficiency, rightfully so. But there are so many other bad aspects to EVs. They weigh more, so there’s LOTS more tire dust spread across the country side and asphalt wears out faster, so you have to use more petroleum to repave asphalt roads more often. Then the car haulers cannot carry as many cars, so there are more semi-truck car haulers on the road.

Then you have the materials problem — we will need 16 times more copper mines worldwide than we have today and an even bigger expansion of lithium mines. Estimates are that the earth’s crust has economically available reserves of these two minerals to maybe complete one generation of “green” transportation systems.

You mentioned the problem with intermittent wind and solar. Power plants (any factory or transportation system for that matter) has a capacity factor — what fraction of nameplate rating do you actually get out of a plant? If a plant can produce 100 of something in a year and it actually produced 80% (due to planned and forced outages), then it has an 80% capacity factor. Fossil fueled plants run in the mid 80% range.

Windmills have a capacity factor of only 28% (and that may be generous), so you need to build THREE TIMES more plants to get out the same energy you would haver gotten out of a conventional plant. But you need to store that energy for the days when the wind doesn’t blow, so you need MASSIVE energy storage plants. You need to build energy storage systems that are a minimum of TWICE the capacity of the wind or solar plant. So you now have overall systems capital investment that is four to six times higher than conventional plants that can be dispatched (ramped up and down to meet load).

If energy prices go up 5X to 10X, then nobody can produce steel or aluminum or any other commodity with heavy energy inputs. Mines are HUGE energy consumers (ripping up hundreds of millions of tons of overburden takes a lot of energy). If energy prices soar, then you cannot even afford to run the big electric shovels and longwell miners in mines.

Even worse, all these rotten system problems are being pushed as a solution to a fictitious problem in the first place.

I didn’t even mention the collapse of engineering schools in the USA and the poor quality of high school and college graduates. Who wants to be a manufacturing, mechanical, electrical or power engineer any more? Where is the engineering talent going to come from to make this massive energy transition?

These kooks, with zero engineering or power experience, think they can redesign the entire energy infrastructure of the nation and transform it overnight. They conveniently overlook the fact that our electrical system was built and optimized over a 135 year period. It takes long periods of time to build something so massive and so complex and have it produce affordable and reliable energy. If the kooks said that we would have a 200 year period to sensibly change over to “green” sources, they might be believable. But anybody that believes we can change out energy and transportation infrastructure in 10 to 30 years is utterly insane.

The whole scam has nothing to do with “green” energy or climate. It’s all about transferring wealth to the world’s biggest scam artists.

[dznutz]

Oh and just for the EV fanboys. Let me run through some facts and how the fanfools distort them

When you confront them with facts that they can’t dispute, they insult, or ignore.

Like you, I’m not opposed to EV’s, I just don’t like having them forced upon us at the cost of phasing out internal combustion, while using lies like green save the planet B.S.. If they can compete on a level playing field, and offer a product that is just as good or better, consumers will buy them with no need to be subsidized, I have a problem with the government propping up EV’s.

I think this push to EV’s is for more nefarious reasons. The irony here, EV fanboys on this site will not be immune to having their vehicles remotely shut down because of a post deemed hate speech, that is of course, if they really are true conservatives.

[from occupied ga]

Everything you say is true. EVs are a really bad idea for any number of reasons, but what I can’t understand is why so many people are taken in by the phony baloney “climate change” hype, and worse see EVs as a solution. It’s like the witchcraft hysteria in The 15th century. Lots of people believed witches were real the and we look at them with contempt. Now we have global warming for the hysterical idiots to wet themselves over.