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Facebook Has No Idea What Data It Has
Schneier on Security ^

Posted on 09/15/2022 6:25:39 AM PDT by FarCenter

This is from a court deposition:

Facebook’s stonewalling has been revealing on its own, providing variations on the same theme: It has amassed so much data on so many billions of people and organized it so confusingly that full transparency is impossible on a technical level. In the March 2022 hearing, Zarashaw and Steven Elia, a software engineering manager, described Facebook as a data-processing apparatus so complex that it defies understanding from within. The hearing amounted to two high-ranking engineers at one of the most powerful and resource-flush engineering outfits in history describing their product as an unknowable machine.

The special master at times seemed in disbelief, as when he questioned the engineers over whether any documentation existed for a particular Facebook subsystem. “Someone must have a diagram that says this is where this data is stored,” he said, according to the transcript. Zarashaw responded: “We have a somewhat strange engineering culture compared to most where we don’t generate a lot of artifacts during the engineering process. Effectively the code is its own design document often.” He quickly added, “For what it’s worth, this is terrifying to me when I first joined as well.”

...

The systemic fogginess of Facebook’s data storage made answering even the most basic question futile. At another point, the special master asked how one could find out which systems actually contain user data that was created through machine inference.

“I don’t know,” answered Zarashaw. “It’s a rather difficult conundrum.”

I’m not surprised. These systems are so complex that no humans understand them anymore. That allows us to do things we couldn’t do otherwise, but it’s also a problem.

(Excerpt) Read more at schneier.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
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1 posted on 09/15/2022 6:25:39 AM PDT by FarCenter
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To: FarCenter

I would bet FB knows alot more than it is letting on.

I will also suggest that our very own govt had a huge financial stake in the development and now the daily use of this spying platform. Zuckerberg is just a front patsy.

MFO


2 posted on 09/15/2022 6:31:03 AM PDT by Man from Oz
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To: Man from Oz

“ I would bet FB knows alot more than it is letting on.”

Ya think?

At this point anyone still using FB for any reason is knowingly aiding and abetting the enemy. I don’t care about your grandkids. Write a damned letter. Make a damned phone call.

L


3 posted on 09/15/2022 6:34:39 AM PDT by Lurker (Peaceful coexistence with the Left is not possible. Stop pretending that it is.)
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To: FarCenter

I really think “businesses” like Facebook are basically CIA fronts and that the government has advanced AI which help manage things that humans either a) can’t manage or b) would like to claim ignorance about.

I would also say that I have seen project teams that don’t want to “waste time” on documentation and basically fly by the seat of their pants. This can work, at least short-term, and companies can tolerate it. But for a huge corporation to basically have a business model based on “we have no idea how this works” is ludicrous. A revelation like that ought to affect their stock price.


4 posted on 09/15/2022 6:34:59 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (We are already in a revolutionary period, and the Rule of Law means nothing. )
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To: FarCenter

“We have a somewhat strange engineering culture compared to most where we don’t generate a lot of artifacts during the engineering process. Effectively the code is its own design document often.”

Sounds typical, of poorly engineered systems. When a system is well engineered and built, typically there is excellent documentation to go along with it to describe the design. Conversely, bad systems typically lack any useful high level design documentation.

Looking in the code is useless. You might discover what a program is doing, but why it is doing something will be a mystery.


5 posted on 09/15/2022 6:36:06 AM PDT by Flick Lives (FJB and the corrupt FBI)
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To: FarCenter

They are asking the wrong people these questions. Should be asking the NSA and CIA under oath these questions.


6 posted on 09/15/2022 6:43:33 AM PDT by rigelkentaurus
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To: FarCenter; All

Funny! They seem to be able to find ME in that data mess and toss me in FB Jail every few weeks for something I’ve done that isn’t up to their ‘Community Double Standards!’

However, the pedo rings, porn links, militant man-haters clubs, Hate Whitey and BLM pages are always up and functioning!

Go figure. *SMIRK*


7 posted on 09/15/2022 6:44:58 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have, 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set. )
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To: FarCenter

“We have a somewhat strange engineering culture compared to most where we don’t generate a lot of artifacts during the engineering process. Effectively the code is its own design document often.”
+++++
That may be good enough for we amateur programmers but it is not the way the pros do it. My experience watching real programmers work is that they spend a surprisingly large share of their time with design and documentation. They finish that design before the coding and testing really gets going.

I would question the long term stability of the Facebook product. If you don’t understand your software architecture it seems inevitable that you will, at some point, hit a troubleshooting dead end. Like trying to figure out how the Chinese managed to steal a jillion gigabytes of personal data. When that happens you are going to wish you had better documentation..


8 posted on 09/15/2022 7:03:53 AM PDT by InterceptPoint (Ted, you finally endorsed.)
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To: Flick Lives

You are spot on correct.

Read my Post 8 below. You beat me to it.


9 posted on 09/15/2022 7:06:45 AM PDT by InterceptPoint (Ted, you finally endorsed.)
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To: FarCenter

What do you mean “Facebook has no idea...”?
Obviously some department in IT knows what data is being gathered and stored. It’s impossible for it to be otherwise.

Top executives may not know everything about all the data. Top executives can easily pretend not to know. Top executives have the power of intimidation, and can easily bark orders to staff and get that information.

I don’t believe anything they say.


10 posted on 09/15/2022 7:12:01 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Biden has gone full nazi. No surprise. He told us on Sept 1, during his 20 minute hate speech.)
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To: Flick Lives

I’m certain that Facebook does not follow the requirements, design, code, test, deploy phased development process.

Facebook is a dorm room hack that has been continuously scaled up and hacked on for two decades.

Zuckerberg’s motto is “Move fast and break things.”

I’m sure that at the system level, Facebook’s architecture is a vast mess. However, they are not alone. The same is true for any large corporation with hundreds of in-house and licensed apps loosely plumbed together with a variety of interconnection techniques.


11 posted on 09/15/2022 7:27:35 AM PDT by FarCenter
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To: InterceptPoint

My experience watching real programmers work is that they spend a surprisingly large share of their time with design and documentation. They finish that design before the coding and testing really gets going.

Totally agree. Without a good design, it would be like a carpenter attempting to build a house without a blueprint, but only a sketch on a napkin.


12 posted on 09/15/2022 7:54:30 AM PDT by Flick Lives (FJB and the corrupt FBI)
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H E L P
13 posted on 09/15/2022 9:27:47 AM PDT by deport
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