Nurses Can Be Sued for Following Doctor’s Orders, NC Court Rules (North Carolina)

Nurse.org ^ | 2 September 2022 | Sarah Falcone

[CodeToad]

Nurses in North Carolina can now be sued for following doctors’ orders when they cause harm to the patient. On Friday, August 19, 2022, a narrowly-split North Carolina Supreme Court struck down a 90-year-old precedent that protected nurses from liability. The opinion of the three justices in favor of overturning the ruling stated that because nursing had evolved, the decision was necessary. The two dissenting justices countered that holding nurses accountable for physicians’ decisions would create “liability without causation.” How this latest ruling will affect future cases is unclear. The full legal briefing can be found here.

[rottndog]

Maybe it’s like the military, you must follow all orders unless they’re unlawful orders.

The rule is you must disobey an illegal order, or an order that violates written procedures and may result in harm to personnel or equipment. As a nuclear operator on a Submarine, I could be prosecuted for following an order I knew would threaten reactor or ship's safety. Many enlisted men have been busted for those kinds of transgressions. This is nothing new.

[kara37]

Its puts the blame on the physician.

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Yeah, that’s how it works. It is why they call it medical supervision.
If the OB you worked for wanted to hire a bunch of midwives and did not supervise them, then the OB should be held responsible. It works the same way in almost every other profession. The boss is held liable too.

Also, you also keep saying the patient is paying full price. That is not true, no matter how many times you keep saying it. CRNAs are not billed out at the same price.

[Chickensoup]

If I am correct it is a chance to do some teaching or bring someone up to speed on the treatment plan and if I’m not a thank you is in order.

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Great health care provision is collaborative and patient centered. And a joy to practice.

[OldGoatCPO]

Maybe my point was not clearly stated, nurses follow doctors “orders” regarding patients care. Disagreeing with a doctor can and has gotten nurses fired. Doctors are the PhD who decides the care plan most do not like to be questioned especially by a nurse with two to four years of college. The NC Supreme Court liberals are idiot’s. Two are up for reelection, they need to go.

[rollo tomasi]

Has nothing to do with CRNA, has everything to do with Byrd v. Hospital being overturned, read the opinion and dissent. Also, every single RN working at an outpatient clinic in NC is now liable since RNs are a conduit for MDs (Through NPs/PAs) at OPCs.

We hold that even in circumstances where a registered nurse is discharging duties and responsibilities under the supervision of a physician, a nurse may be held liable for negligence and for medical malpractice in the event that the registered nurse is found to have breached the applicable professional standard of care. To the extent that this Court’s decision in Byrd v. Marion General Hospital establishes a contrary principle, we reverse Byrd. We expressly note that our decision in the present case does not disturb in any way the principle enunciated in Byrd that “nurses, in the discharge of their duties,” when they “obey and diligently execute the orders of the physician or surgeon in charge of the patient,” may be held liable when “such order was so obviously negligent as to lead any reasonable person to anticipate that substantial injury would result to the patient from the execution of such order or performance of such direction.” 202 N.C. at 341.

[rollo tomasi]

The opinion affects every RN under the direct supervision of a MD. The CRNA was the catalyst to overturn a previous opinion that protected all RNs (Under direct supervision), that is gone now.

The incident of the CRNA is being retried without the protections of Byrd v. Marion General Hospital, 202 N.C. 337 (1932).

This ruling will cause all kinds of delays pertaining to patient care, especially in critical care/med surg. Going to be a cluster* because one horror story that affects the whole industry in NC. Laws or rulings of horror stories way out of the norm make society weaker, not protected. Heck, NSAIDS would of never made it to market with today standards.

[kaila]

The hospital corporations have taken over clinics , forcing MDs into a supervisor role with their license at stake. You midlevels just jumped on that bandwagon

[kara37]

You midlevels just jumped on that bandwagon.

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First, I’m not a midlevel. I’m not in the medical field at all. However, I come from a large family of medical professionals. Dr’s, NPs, RNs, OTs, PTs, ect., so I know a little bit about how this works. You seem surprisingly uninformed for being in the medical field.

[kaila]

If you are not in the medical field, then you have no idea of what is going on. Having relatives in the field does not make you an expert.

[kara37]

Obviously, being in the medical field doesn’t make you an expert either, because you have no idea what your talking about.

[kaila]

Since you never have dealt with co workers turned NP,or worked with PA, or spouse who had to supervise them as a physician, then stay in your lane. Its a downgrading of healthcare. Why don’t you actually have a discussion with your relatives whose license these midlevels work under, and see if they want that risk to their career? They have expanded their role way beyond their training.

[kara37]

Since you never have dealt with co workers turned NP

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I knew it. The first sentence says it all.

[kaila]

Whats your problem? For someone who is not in the medical profession, you sure have your hackles up. When you work in the trenches, maybe then I will listen to you. But since you have never been in the trenches, you have no idea.

[kara37]

You sure have your hackles up

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It’s not me that has their hackles up. You are the one that seems to have an extreme dislike for PAs and NPs.

Like I said, I have a lot of medical professionals in my family, so I do know a little bit. I never said I was an expert.
However, I do know that PAs and NPs can play an important role in medical care. No, they don’t replace a doctor, but sometimes you don’t always need a doctor.

You have been attacking them with every reply, and making statements that are flat out false.

So, that’s my problem.

[kaila]

If you want to see a “ Dr “ Np, by all means. Just know that many of them have online degrees.
https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/nursing-degrees/drnp/index.aspx?campaign=185070&ccid=185070&utm_source=Lippincott+Williams+%26+Wilkins&utm_medium=email&utm_content=DNP&utm_campaign=185070&mkt_tok=NjgxLUZIRS00MjkAAAGG2xNXnDRpKFyb68URlHJMAFwGr7cD7-9O3oLvjT7GWltn7Ad_uzYGXAc7_XsOLa9woVqQEtXK6lBTLftn4eyW7LXr4Dwd9X3srLs4hfeA4QT6fbroow

I am not sue this copy and paste will work, but this is an online NP program . There are many out there. Drexel University.

[kaila]

https://www.midlevel.wtf/

[kara37]

If you want to see a “ Dr “ Np, by all means. Just know that many of them have online degrees.

*************************************

LOL, I really don’t want to keep having this conversation with you, but you keep posting such stupid stuff, I can’t help myself.

I’m well aware of the of the degree requirements. You are not going to surprise me that there are bad NP, just like it doesn’t surprise me that there are bad doctors.

I’m sure I could find tons of websites out there on medical malpractice suits against doctors. In fact, I was released from jury duty a couple years ago about a doctor that killed someone.

You hate NP’s and PA’s, that’s fine. Don’t go to them.

However, I have 3 doctors in my immediate family, and I trust the NP in my family more than 2 of those doctors. Of course, It does depend on the medical problem.

[kaila]

Well, you do you. I will see someone with an actual MD.

[kara37]

BTW, I just wanted to tell you a little story that happen a couple weeks ago.
I took my daughter to an ENT doctor to have a bump removed form her earlobe. She had it since she was born.

I told the doctor that I was told it was a little piece of cartilage. He laughed at me, and said he didn’t know who told me that, but cartilage doesn’t form in someone earlobe.

Guess what the results came back as? Yep, cartilage. Guess who told me it was cartilage? Yep, the NP.

The doctor was fascinated by the results, and asked how she could have possible known that, because he had never seen it before.

So, maybe you had some bad experiences with NP’s, but I’ve had also had some bad experiences with doctors.

[markman46]

yes its the billing modifier that shows what happen. i agree CRNAs do not have the training and should have the physician present at all times.