Posted on 08/02/2022 7:51:56 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
Yet it seems that it’s for the US to say what the border of Ukraine should be. We kept chest bumping Putin for the last 8 to 10 years, and now here we are. The eastern Nazi part of Ukraine got too much power. They have to be put in check. Watching DC get pimp slapped, and the WEF/NATO take a blackeye is just icing on the cake.
Just following the analogy - just think of all those poor Americans dying needlessly in their millions, when they could have surrendered and lived under benighted Mexican rule.
Wrong again...Russia isn't negotiating with Ukraine any more, they're using 'other means' to accomplish their goals.
The situation is completely different today then before the war started, and not in Ukraine's favor.
Ukraine walked away from the table because Russia wouldn’t budge on those key issues.
The situation is exactly the same as it was before. And much like before even if Russia wins there will be resistance for years and probably Russia eventually leaves, much like in Afghanistan.
I don’t see an issue with saying Putin was putting on genius negotiation tactics. Or calling him a genius.
Doesn’t mean Putin is a good guy, means we’re looking at him as an actual threat.
I bet you that people called Hitler smart early in WW2, for certain tactics.
Hatred bordering on stupidity is strong in this one.
Yes of course.
Trump was unable to negotiate or make a deal with his domestic enemies. He lacked the nature to fight and as a result they ruined him.
He could not sanction the leadership of the FBI or CIA so they beat him unmercifully. They knew he was defenseless even though the most powerful man on earth
They are all still there and what’s more still motivated to kill him. His second term will be a continuous distraction as their ruinous daily action continues un abated.
“Only problem that analysis is that it is false comparison. 1. Israel actually had to defend themselves, all Ukraine had to do was not rattle the swords by refusing to join NATO and quit shelling Ukes of Russian heritage or loyalties in Eastern Ukraine. You know, act like an honest government. 2. The Ukrainian Government is corrupt, Israel was not.”
As for (1) above, the Donbas’ Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR) and Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) claimed independence, and allegiance to Russia, thus starting a civil war. Kind of like 1861 in the United States with some of the Southern states.
As for (2) above, Israel is corrupt, as well (as recent court cases have shown). There is no such thing as a country void of corruption. Some people who hold power just cannot help themselves when the opportunities for graft and larceny present themselves.
“So, you apparently think that the Ukraine Government was right to shell their own people in the eastern provinces of Ukraine?”....You also apparently think that Ukraine should not have honored their promises where the Minsk treaty was concerned?”
When one side is not living up to an agreement, and flagrantly violating it, you do not sit back and pretend the opposite to be true. The Minsk agreement was used by Putin as against the government of Ukraine as a cover to continually violate the Minsk agreement. What was supposed to be decided in the breakaway areas by the people in those areas AND Ukraine, together, Putin decided to make and increase facts on the ground to try to take Ukraine and its government out of the equation.
Pure nonsense.
“The fact is there was no deal to make. Putin demanded Ukraine lose their military and Russia final approval on foreign relations. All that deal would do was leave Ukraine open for a much easier invasion later. That’s not a deal. That’s suicide.”
Exactly.
He’s 100% right
Tens of thousands dead mostly civilians
For disputed territory and globalist itch to skin Pooties knee
Neocons often have never even busted a grape
So, Trump is suggesting that another country negotiate away its territory to a third country?
I would understand saying, “it’s none of our business”…but anything else is inappropriate.
Russia is never leaving Ukraine, if anything its Ukraine that’s going away.
I’m not sure what koolaid your drinking but I suggest you watch some of the recent interviews with Ukie forces in Kharkov, Slavansk, and Zaporizhzhia regions where they describe the local population constantly giving away their positions to the Russian side.
There may be a rump Ukraine leftover when the fighting stops, but its not gonna look geographically anything like it did in Dec 2021.
Yeah they will.
I pay attention to history. Ukraine resisted Russia for over a decade after WWII. They don’t want to be a part of Russia. It might take them another decade. But they aren’t going to stop fighting. And at some point Russia will get tired of bleeding.
But, this ought to clear enough to neocons like Williams here that they ARE NOT on the same side as Trump on this war.
What would Trump have done to stop him?
“Ukraine walked away from the table because Russia wouldn’t budge on those key issues.”
There is an old saying: A successful negotiation is when both sides give up something, and at the end neither is particularly happy; but they accept and abide by it.
In the instant matter, Russia was demanding that Ukraine give up something of its own, but Russia would not (really, what was Russia going to “give up?”). That is not a negotiation; that is a threat.
I don’t blame Ukraine for telling Russia to pound sand under those circumstances.
> Putin probably wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine had Trump still been president. ... What would Trump have done to stop him? <
Trump was a tough and smart president. So he was capable of a tough and smart response. Who knows what that response would have been (I don’t). And that’s the whole point. Putin would have had to take one heck of a gamble.
Biden is of course the polar opposite of Trump. Biden is weak and stupid. It’s much less of a gamble when dealing with a person like that.
It’s worth noting that Putin also made aggressive moves when Bush II and Obama were president. But not when Trump was president.
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