Posted on 08/01/2022 4:13:38 AM PDT by JonPreston
Not happy until we are all killing each other again
Baloney, DC jumped into Kosovo because it was moslem. Crimea has been a Russian navy base since the 1790s. The population voted. Besides it wasn’t an invasion. They were already there as they always had been. They just stepped outside and raised their flag.
Whoah. The UN had nothing to do with that little war. In fact, there was no UN mandate for our little bombing campaign. It was against the UN Charter (and also in violation of the NATO Charter). A small UN mission was temporarily added as window dressing after the bombing, but Kosovo was under full NATO military control. KFOR was *never* under the UN. And over 20 years later, NATO is still babysitting Kosovo.
Yes, the ethnic Albanians had been pouring into Kosovo to escape Enver’s Chinese nightmare all during Tito Time, and this after the Nazi-allied Albanians killed or chased out the Serbian and Jewish inhabitants during WWII and Tito did not allow those who fled to return to their homes. Then, granted a generous autonomy by Tito, the ethnic Albanians abused it, blinding cattle belonging to Serbs and raping Serb women. (Not Serb propaganda — you could read about it in Croatian newspapers of the time.) The rest of Yugoslavia resented having to support Serbia’s welfare province of Kosovo, and this was one of the main reasons Croats cited to me for their desire for independence: they were “tired” of their tax money being sent to “corrupt Albanians” to be wasted on “their” (meaning Serbs’) Kosovo Province.
It was in Germany’s interest to break up Yugoslavia*, and they had been clandestinely arming the Croats since around 1988. When the BND caught the KLA being trained by Al Qaeda, they decided to get in that game, too, to replace Al Qdaeda. And, just as we did in Croatia, we then jumped into the game to show Germany who is the real boss. Even Richard Holbrook seemed a bit perplexed in the beginning, calling the KLA “Che Guavera wannabes” but he soon got with the program.
Our aims there: (1) Prove once again the Europeans “can’t handle a conflict in their own backyard” and “the UN is useless” (2) prove NATO is indispensable — see #1 (3) establish a handy permanent American base (4) secure the EU’s important Corridor XII (the ethnic Albanians in FYROM were also acting up at the time and there was a troublesome drive for a “greater Albania”). The statue of Clinton was a bonus.
It’s true the UN was cynically used by us in Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina. We didn’t register any protest when the Croats violated the peace agreement and invaded the UN Protected Areas, slaughtering civilians and burning villages (see Madak Pocket Incursion — some of the Canadian Blue Helmets who fought them back wrote about it). We selectively enforced the arms and fuel embargos against former Y, allowing Iranian arms shipments into Croatian ports (and Iranian mujahidin into BiH) where the Croats skimmed off the cream before sending them on to BiH. We used the UN mission there to freeze the conflict while arming the Croats and sending MPRI to train them at Jastrebarsko. Finally, we assisted them in many ways when they ethnically cleansed Sectors North and South, an area the size of England, of 250,000 ethnic Serbs.
In BiH, we sabotaged every peace agreement and ceasefire, claiming the Muslims didn’t get enough map. From our catbird on the USNC, we declared the “Safe Havens” in BiH, but denied the funding and authorization for the UN troops necessary to their defense (only 4% of the troops needed “at a minimum” as reported and requested by the British commander were approved). But no matter, the “Safe Havens” were never expected to stand. They were considered bargaining chips for the end game by the warring parties, as trip wires by Clinton.
After Clinton told Izetbegovic that NATO would only become more involved in the event of a major massacre involving a Safe Haven, lo and behold the Serbs came upon Srebrenica, whose infamous leader, Nasir Oric, had fled with other top officers the night before. Seeing easy pickings (and a chance to get revenge for Oric’s horrible war crimes — he used the “Safe Haven” to launch attacks on surrounding Serb villages, slaughtering women, children and elderly — videoed it all and showed the videos to journalists while brazenly bragging about it).
Leaderless and confused, the Muslim soldiers of Srebrenica attempted to flee. Other Muslim troops in the area were ordered not to come to their aid. So the Serbs went on a sort of turkey shoot, with running battles all around with the fleeing Muslims. The Serbs did summarily execute around 1200 of them altogether, here and there in small groups, which is a horrible war crime, but the remainder were killed in the turkey shoot. In the minds of the Serbs, what were they supposed to do? Let them run off to fight against them again one day next Tuesday? Take them prisoner? They didn’t exactly have a Guantanamo handy. So turkey shoot it was. Of course the tiny garrison of Dutch Blue Helmets was blamed, poor guys.
Anyway, I ran into a few Americans who had been stationed at Bondsteel, who actually ventured out among the people and visited surrounding villages. They had come to the conclusion they had been lied to in their pre-deployment briefings and were horrified by the lawlessness and brutality of the KLA and thought we got it all backwards. They could not figure out why we took their side, and a few had started to entertain weird conspiracy theories. I could certainly sympathize. It took me awhile to figure it out why we acted as we did in former Y — I really wanted to believe we were the good guys, but sorry, Clinton and Madcow Albright were not such good guys. I always believed Americans have good hearts and would have seen the conflicts there differently had they known the truth.
It’s also true the media portrayed the conflicts there as what I first thought of as a black-and-white cowboy movie where the Croats wore white hats, the Serbs black hats and the Muslims were the schoolmarm tied to the railroad track. Later, it became obvious to me the Serbs were portrayed as Nazis, the Croats as the French Resistance and the Muslims as the Jews. Ironic, no? Considering the Croatian Ustasha and the Bosnian Muslims avidly sided with the Nazis during WWII and the Ustasha ran death camps so horrific they turned the stomachs of their Nazi SS minders who wrote back to their superiors in Berlin about their appalling excesses. And an active Croat neo-Nazi element at the time. Meanwhile, during WWII, villagers in Serbia sacrificed themselves to protect American airmen who had, parachuted in.
Peter Brock bravely wrote a book titled “Media Cleansing” detailing this, in case you are interested.
*The Germans wanted Yugoslavia broken up and considered Croatia and Slovenia as future second-tier markets and labor pools. Already there were lots of Croats working in Germany back then. Yugoslavia was more digestible in smaller pieces, so Germany wanted it in smaller pieces.
I’m sure you realize the EU is simply a euphemism for “Kinder Gentler German Empire”. We were all for the EU, as we considered Germany to be the natural ruler of Europe, and given that and their expansionist nature and history, we thought it best to let them have their “softer” sort of empire where the other countries got to keep their flags and stuff. It’s just nicer that way, no?
But, at the same time, we wanted to keep NATO and keep Germany on our leash, so to speak. Anyway, we jumped in when we finally figured out that Germany was already ahead of us in Yugoslavia, showed them a thing or two and proved *we* called the shots and yes, NATO was here to stay.
Maastricht was born of blood. The price Germany exacted from other European countries for submerging their precious Deutschmark into the Euro was recognition of Croatia’s independence against the recommendations of the Badinter Commission. Yes, some European consciences smarted a bit, but filthy lucre won out. Hello war! Izetbegovic knew recognition of Croatia meant war for Bosnia-Hercegovina, too, and begged them not to do it, but we and the Germans went ahead anyway, and the other European countries went along.
James Baker was evenhanded at the start and made sound recommendations, but the hawks weren’t inteterested in being a truly Benign Hegemon. We had the catbird seat at the UNSC after the dissolution of the USSR, and our goal was to prove to the Europeans they couldn’t even handle a conflict in their own backyard and UN peacekeeping was useless — only NATO could save the day. No way were we going to relinquish our fave lever of power, NATO.
And don’t forget the Serbs agreed to the Rambouillet Agreement, but then Madcow Albright whipped out Annex B:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4070883/posts?page=34#34
For some reason, we no longer cared about Annex B after bombing the daylights out of Serbia for 78 days, as the Kumanovo Agreement was very much the same as Rambouillet, but minus that pesky Annex B.
Things that make you go “hmm”.
No doubt this is the handiwork of CIA.
Yep, Thank you, Cat, for the very well detailed History of the NATO Aggression and Warfare on Serbia, the Insider History on the Islamization and Conquest of Kosovo, the destruction of Yugoslavia the why of those Warmongering Actions.
You are correct that the UN was less to blame.
Please pardon me for abbreviating my posts so much that I occasionally miss a point.
I've got a lot of reading to do to catch up to your level of insider knowledge, thanks for the tips!
All the more reason to get out of NATO.
The number of agreements which were made by ostensibly "liberal" Democrats mounts up with time. Even now, Kosovo is nor recognized by some European nations, even though NATO pretends to speak for "Europe." Albright was as Nuland is, even now, and the sponsored and assisted "revolutions" all seem to add to the "things that make you go 'hmm." 110 of about 194 countries "recognize" Kosovo in principle, but Islamic nations are among those not joining in this ostensible ethnic state. Brookings laughingly calls Kosovo a "partially recognized" state. Probably like being partially pregnant....
Maybe we’re taking advantage of it as little PR stunt. Or to say neener neener at Putin. Remember the cute little stunt we had Kosovo pull during the lead-up to the UNGA vote to deplore Russia?
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4042065/posts?page=14#14
That was a little jab at Putin (and Vučić). This might be, too, but it’s really just a big nothingburger. For some reason, the peoples of former Yugoslavia are obsessed with license plates and easily take offense at the “wrong” sort. But they’re not *that* obsessed. This will blow over.
You are most welcome, sir.
We’ll never get out of NATO, though. It’s our favorite power tool.
I tend to agree, though I sure didn't predict the crap we're living through now.
SEATO was Disbanded in mid 1977 even though Communist China showed no signs of folding.
They just weren't an economic, air or naval power then, but Communism was still strong.
Now China has Good Publicity, Closet Communist Control, of a Pay-To-Play For Profit Economy, and Russia's Economy is almost as Capitalistic and Free Market as the US.
Who woulda thunk it?
We agree. They all blow over sooner or later.
This particular one has probably served its short-lived purpose as best as possible. It will now move into the dust bin of "was" (not "is")
Yes, Greece doesn’t recognize it, either, partly out of solidarity with their Orthodox brothers in Serbia, partly because they are leery of the old Greater Albania project, which includes a chunk of North Macedonia and a little bite out of Montenegro as well as Kosovo, and eerily similar to the Nazi-allied Albania of WWII:
https://www.gifex.com/fullsize-en/2011-05-19-13692/Albania_during_World_War_II.html
Kosovo is not a viable state. If it ever ceases to be a NATO statelet, it will have to attach to Albania in some fashion.
Even the libs were horrified when whoever controls the Biden administration appointed Nuland. Check out what uber-lefty Salon had to say about her:
Don’t get me started on Albright. I confess I couldn’t help laughing when the Serb delegation mistook her for a cleaning lady at Rambouillet. A fellow Freeper described her to a T back when: “Very rarely does one encounter a woman who has such an air of imperial sadism about her.”
Well, SEATO members had already fallen away, and after we pulled out of Vietnam, it just died its natural death. We were in the process of normalizing relations with China then.
Who would have guessed back then that after the collapse of the USSR, we’d be pushing a reluctant Russia into the arms of the Chinese? Or that we would make ourselves dependent on China for essential goods, including vital pharmaceutical ingredients and medical supplies? Remember the PPE shortage when Covid started? Now we have a shortage of blood test tubes:
Back in late 70s and the 80s we thought trade and investment would strengthen China’s middle class and bring about the end of commnism. While it’s true that a strong middle class is a prerequisite for democracy, it did not exactly work out that way. Yes, we wound up strengthening China’s middle class at the expense of our own and the commies are still in charge there. They smile more now, so it’s all good, right? Biden is draining our Strategic Oil Reserve while China is filling up its own (and hoarding grain). And then there’s our Excellent Adventure in Ukraine. Whichever side “wins” that war, China will be the real winner. More here:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4082021/posts?page=9#9
Yes, who would have guessed all this back then?
China knew what they were doing. They knew you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Of course Mao's rants weren't going to make them any friends, and leave them isolated. So they figured it would be better to pretend to be our friend, while stealing our manufacturing base and then one day, cash in on that leverage. Just as the Communists always said, "The Capitalists will sell us the rope we will hang them with."
You are delightfully well informed.
Yes, I agree with your points in post #33.
It’s the real world we live in.
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