Posted on 06/14/2022 10:09:09 AM PDT by rktman
The use of red flag laws when it comes to firearms has been brought back to the forefront of the national conversation in the aftermath of the mass shootings in Buffalo, New York and Uvalde, Texas. Both shooters had histories of law enforcement being known to them for disturbing or criminal acts, though the Buffalo shooter was able to avoid New York red flag laws.
Criticisms of such laws is that it is ripe for abuse since due process goes to the wayside and language of laws can often be too broad. PolitiFact attempted to debunk gun owners concerns about red flag laws by claiming it is "misinformation" to say the laws circumvent due process.
"Another false claim is that the laws allow people with a grudge, such as an ex-spouse, to take guns away," the outlet added.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
As a professor teaching administrative law once said, “Everyone agrees there should due process. The question is, what process is due?”
It's like banning cars because every year children die in car crashes. Let's try hardening the targets first...
Lol! I’m what case do you think SCOTUS ruled all red flags unconstitutional?
What blog told you that?
Caniglia v. Strom? That wasn’t about red flags. It was about the community caretaking doctrine.
And in the case of getting back guns being siezed with abuse of red flag laws, good luck. And its guramteed that even if you do, you'll be in a database.
You have a neighbor. The neighbor sees you slap your kid on the bottom. The neighbor makes a red flag call....the police show up and take all your firearms.
Red Flag laws are just GREAT! ( sarc,)
There needs to be a red flag recourse law as well for false complaints.
I do not archive every news article I see.
But I have read several accounts of citizens (Mostly women) being killed after abuse of “Red-Flag” laws and also due to “Waiting Periods”.
Stalkers and crazed Ex’s intent on murder are not stopped by Red Flag or Waiting Period laws.
Wacked out vermin planning child murder will not be dissuaded either.
Would it be an improvement if they switch to Weather Underground bombing tactics?
I think not.
It is obvious we will never be able to arm enough qualified teachers with firearms to defend their classes.
But it is equally obvious that “Less than lethal” arms should be put into common use immediately.
*
As bad as red flag laws are, they don’t work that way. They typically require filing an affidavit under oath and judicial approval before the order is granted.
You can’t just make a call and have someone’s firearms seized.
For the people who really do think that it’s worth giving up Constitutional protections for, those people already have many options. They can move to Canada, or the UK, or France, or Germany, or Italy, or Spain, etc, etc...
You can’t just make a call and have someone’s firearms seized.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oh yes you can. The due process comes when the firearms holder has to apply to get the arms back.
This is the way it worlks in Canada. Upon any information reported to the RCMP that a gun owner has become violent or suicidal, the RCMP will enter without a warrant and seize the firearms.
The complainant remains anaonymous and the fire arms owner has to apply to get them back. Very expensive and time consuming.
Many of the red flag laws now being proposed in various blue states are exactly like Canada’s.
Many Canadians have two firearms storages...one front one available for seizure, and another in a safe , remoter location which cannot be red flag discovered.
The red-flag requestor should be public information, too. They should not be able to report someone for a red flag and go un-identified. That would certainly cut down on false red flags.
Actually in practice you pretty much CAN!
As a gun dealer I met several victims of this.
Ex makes a call to the cops, cops then “Exercise due caution” to immediately confiscate all firearms*.
The firearm owner then gets to TRY to object in court at great expense, while laboring under the presumption of guilt.
Judges tend to ignore or not even allow introduction of exculpatory evidence, on par with “The Reign of Terror” as practiced during the French revolution.
*Refusal to open your safe to allow the confiscation will get you charged with things like “Failure to heed a police officer”, “Assault on a police officer”, “Trespass” (In your own home!), etc.
The greatest use of “Red Flag” laws is as a club to beat gun owners into submission at divorce court.
“Give me everything I demand or I will file a domestic abuse complaint and you will lose all your guns!”.
Lack of due process prior to enforcement gives these threats credibility.
After the divorce is final does not prevent further abuse, I know an FFL who lost his business when his Ex, who lives 2500 miles away, complained that his having firearms still endangered her.
Red-Flag laws WILL become the next pretext for full confiscation if enacted nationally.
That would be in line with the principles outlined in the 6th Amendment:
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right . . . to be confronted with the witnesses against him . . . .”
Yes, yes, yes. They can be and are being abused. In Illinois, we have to have a FOID card to own a firearm. If during a divorce 1 spouse just has to
Mention Order of Protection and then prison with a FOID card is instantly revoked. Then the state police send a letter demanding how you disposed of your firearms. Cause now it is ilegal for you to own or have access to a firearm.
Yea his has happened to several friends and family members
IOW,"red flag" laws are *absolutely* unnecessary. And the Maoist hacks who pass them,and support them,know it!
IOW, the constitutional guarantee of "innocent until proven guilty" is inverted into "guilty until you prove yourself innocent". Red flag violates many more than one constitutional right.
If people started calling in ‘anonymous’ complaints on the wrong people (politicians, LE), I’m betting they wouldn’t remain anonymous very long.
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