Posted on 05/06/2022 8:18:38 PM PDT by Kevmo
The De-NAZIfication Claim by Russia is Factually Wrong -- 300 Historians
Claim is made at 4:42 in the video
DW's head of fact checking Joscha Weber
Also, in the last parliamentary elections in 2019 right wing parties won just 2% of the vote.
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Here is the statement he is referring to.
https://jewishjournal.com/news/worldwide/345515/statement-on-the-war-in-ukraine-by-scholars-of-genocide-nazism-and-world-war-ii/
Statement on the War in Ukraine by Scholars of Genocide, Nazism and World War II
Izabella Tabarovsky
Eugene Finkel February 27, 2022
Protestors with banners rally in front of Parliament in support of Ukraine, demanding that Putin ends this war and protesting that the Georgian Prime Minister, Irakli Gharibashvili, step down, after he said he would not introduce sanctions against Russia in response to its invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022 (Photo by Daro Sulakauri/Getty Images) Audio Player
00:00 18:45
Use Up/Down Arrow keys to increase or decrease volume. As we write this, the horror of war is unfolding in Ukraine. The last time Kyiv was under heavy artillery fire and saw tanks in its streets was during World War II. If anyone should know it, it’s Vladimir Putin, who is obsessed with the history of that war.
Russian propaganda has painted the Ukrainian state as Nazi and fascist ever since Russian special forces first entered Ukraine in 2014, annexing the Crimea and fomenting the conflict in the Donbas, which has smoldered for eight long years.
It was propaganda in 2014. It remains propaganda today.
This is why we came together: to protest the use of this false and destructive narrative. Among those who have signed the statement below are some of the most accomplished and celebrated scholars of World War II, Nazism, genocide and the Holocaust. If you are a scholar of this history, please consider adding your name to the list. If you are a journalist, you now have a list of experts you can turn to in order to help your readers better understand Russia’s war against Ukraine.
And if you are a consumer of the news, please share the message of this letter widely. There is no Nazi government for Moscow to root out in Kyiv. There has been no genocide of the Russian people in Ukraine. And Russian troops are not on a liberation mission. After the bloody 20th century, we should all have built enough discernment to know that war is not peace, slavery is not freedom, and ignorance offers strength only to autocratic megalomaniacs who seek to exploit it for their personal agendas.
The statement can be found below. If you are a scholar and would like to add your signature to the list, please tweet @eugene_finkel or @izatabaro or send an email to efinkel4@jhu.edu.
To see the latest additions to the list of signatories, please see here.
***
Statement by Scholars of Genocide, Nazism and World War II Since February 24, 2022, the armed forces of the Russian Federation have been engaged in an unprovoked military aggression against Ukraine. The attack is a continuation of Russia’s annexation of the Crimean peninsula in 2014 and its heavy involvement in the armed conflict in the Donbas region.
The Russian attack came in the wake of accusations by the Russian president Vladimir Putin of crimes against humanity and genocide, allegedly committed by the Ukrainian government in the Donbas. Russian propaganda regularly presents the elected leaders of Ukraine as Nazis and fascists oppressing the local ethnic Russian population, which it claims needs to be liberated. President Putin stated that one of the goals of his “special military operation” against Ukraine is the “denazification” of the country.
We are scholars of genocide, the Holocaust, and World War II. We spend our careers studying fascism and Nazism, and commemorating their victims. Many of us are actively engaged in combating contemporary heirs to these evil regimes and those who attempt to deny or cast a veil over their crimes.
We strongly reject the Russian government’s cynical abuse of the term genocide, the memory of World War II and the Holocaust, and the equation of the Ukrainian state with the Nazi regime to justify its unprovoked aggression. This rhetoric is factually wrong, morally repugnant and deeply offensive to the memory of millions of victims of Nazism and those who courageously fought against it, including Russian and Ukrainian soldiers of the Red Army.
We do not idealize the Ukrainian state and society. Like any other country, it has right-wing extremists and violent xenophobic groups. Ukraine also ought to better confront the darker chapters of its painful and complicated history. Yet none of this justifies the Russian aggression and the gross mischaracterization of Ukraine. At this fateful moment we stand united with free, independent and democratic Ukraine and strongly reject the Russian government’s misuse of the history of World War II to justify its own violence.
(Russian translation appears after the
“50 current putinistas posting as fake conservatives all agree that it’s okay for the Russians to invade America because there are NAZIs in Idaho”
How many NAZIs does it take to generate a valid excuse for invading a country? It’s gonna have to be about 50x higher than what you’re pointing at, so obvious that 300 scholars wouldn’t dare sign up the way they did.
Yet you persist in pushing this as a valid excuse for invasion. Using your argumentation it is reason enough for Russia to invade us, their neighbor, because there are NAZIs in Idaho.
7% of violent Nazis who have guns and impunity are enough to shape politics.
Indeed. I’m right there with you on that point. I still remember the 400 Constitutional Scholars who took out a full page ad in the NYT in 1998 testifying that they believed that a bl@w j@b is not a high crime or misdemeanor. I remember this distinctly because ‘Dr.’ Doris Kearns Goodwin and author Stephen Ambrose (”Band of Brothers” author) were two prominent signatories.
IMO, where politics or ideology are involved, academic credentials don’t mean much.
That’s a weasel statement. When is it enough to justify Russia invading its neighbor. First Ukraine, then America.
There is no justification.
Who said it is a justification? Russia is a guarantor of Minsk agreements. She is obliged to defend people the Nazis were planning to kill en-masse. There were multiple options for Ukraine to avoid it, but it didn’t because its sponsors wanted exactly that. They had the option to keep their country even after it has all started, but now they don’t.
Who said it is a justification?
***Russia did, and you’re standing right there backing Putin up.
Russia is a guarantor of Minsk agreements.
***Look up the word ‘coercion’ in the dictionary. It is an agreement signed at the edge of a Russian sword of their first invasion that obambam did nothing about. Russia signed an agreement in 1994 assuring Ukrainian borders, and so did we — in exchange for nukes. It is a far more valid agreement due to those nukes than your buttboy obama’s weak-willed namby pamby bullsnot appeasement.
She is obliged to defend people the Nazis were planning to kill en-masse.
***Russia invented that bullsnot.
There were multiple options for Ukraine to avoid it,
***As long as they were willing to be continue to be invaded by Russia.
but it didn’t because its sponsors wanted exactly that.
***It didn’t because thousands of Ukes were getting killed and your buttboy obambam was gonna do nuthin about it.
They had the option to keep their country even after it has all started, but now they don’t.
***They have exercised their option to keep their country, they kicked your russian @$$#0/e invader friends out of Kiev, they now have an international coalition arming them much like Kuwait did when they fought off an invader after her oil, and all we have left on FR is fake conservatives like you who want to kiss Putin’s boots.
You are just pushing the approved line of your government propaganda contradicting whatever fact on the ground.
I realize that the notion is that Russia - bad, Russians do not deserve any rights reserved to other groups and so on.
If it is religious on your part then there is no subject for discussion, but you shouldn’t expect Russians or any reasonable people to accept it because there is nowhere to retreat anymore.
More so, your position contradicts whatever value your society allegedly represents. Why should the Russians accept the idea that the Americans have the right to security but they do not? Or that other groups have rights to their culture and religion but the Russians don’t? You are free to preach this crap to your choir.
This article is from “the hill.”
Have you missed the tv interviews of the Ukrainian army?
They are proud of being nazis. They even show their nazi
tats to the reporters. There are nazi symbols all over the place, including their uniforms.
You are just pushing the approved line of your government propaganda contradicting whatever fact on the ground.
***I don’t see you providing ANY facts. And I don’t GAF what the guvmint says or does. I make up my own mind based on the facts on the ground. And those facts are simple: Russia INVADED. DUHH. Gigantic fracking [literally] duhh factor, because they are after the oil & gas rights control and the warm water ports. It is a straightforward conquest invasion, with bullsnot justification that guys like you are buying into hook, line, and sinker.
I realize that the notion is that Russia - bad, Russians do not deserve any rights reserved to other groups and so on.
***I do not reserve the right to invade to any other group, any other nation, especially when it’s over oil/gas/ports like when Saddam invaded. And an international coalition kicked his ass back to Iraq. Now it’s Pootypoot’s turn, I doubt he will survive his own internal political processes of long knives.
If it is religious on your part then there is no subject for discussion,
***Where do you come up with this nonsense? Every single putinista comes up with some sideways justification. It’s amazing. You overlook the obvious and then bring in side note bullsnot as your main point. You might as well just not even bother because your points are thoroughly repudiated.
but you shouldn’t expect Russians or any reasonable people to accept it because there is nowhere to retreat anymore.
***I know there’s nowhere for you to retreat because you are morally vacant.
More so, your position contradicts whatever value your society allegedly represents.
***No it doesn’t. Even your side acknowledges it was right to denuke the Ukes. You should start there. But you don’t because you approach this whole thing in an a priori fashion, your mind is already made up.
Why should the Russians accept the idea that the Americans have the right to security but they do not?
***I kinda like this line of reasoning because we could use it to invade Mexico and set up a 100 mile buffer zone to interdict illegal colonizers and the narco state drug traffic. But you and I know that no uniparty Biden/Bush/Bullsnot administration will ever do this, even though it’s the right thing. Intervening on an invasion where nukes have already been relinquished as proof of positive intention is the right thing to do in Ukraine.
Or that other groups have rights to their culture and religion but the Russians don’t?
***Russia’s right to culture ends at the borders that Russia signed. Your right to swing your fist ends at my face.
You are free to preach this crap to your choir.
***You are free to keep morally degrading into an orc.
I’ve seen NAZI followers in Idaho. Is that justification enough for Russia to invade America?
Russia invaded Ukraine. If neo-Nazis from Ukraine invaded Russia, then maybe you have a point.
I would have partially understood your take if not for your hypocrisy.
What did NATO do in Kosovo and why? What does it do in Syria? Your Mexican example is idiotic because there are no missiles targeting your country.
Your government worked hard to provoke it and it is set to lose badly in terms of international prestige, more so than in Iraq and Afghanistan.
What did NATO do in Kosovo and why?
***We are talking about Ukraine. Did Russia invade Kosovo? If so, I missed it.
What does it do in Syria?
***Did Syria give up a third of the former soviet nuclear arsenal? If so I missed it.
Your Mexican example is idiotic because there are no missiles targeting your country.
***There are no nuke missiles targeting Russia from Ukraine.
Your government worked hard to provoke it
***Basically a bunch of bullsnot.
and it is set to lose badly in terms of international prestige, more so than in Iraq and Afghanistan.
***Argument from silence, in this case the silence is the future, yet another classic fallacy from your side. Your side has so many classic fallacies that I have lost patience with you guys. Besides, Russia is the side who has already lost literally boatloads of prestige so far.
Any comment on Kosovo and Syria? Don’t your “values” end beyond your borders?
Thank you for making my point by omission.
Any comment on Kosovo
***Kosovo doesn’t rise to the level of salient that Ukraine does. Kosovo didn’t give up a third of USSR’s nuke weapons, doesn’t have a Russian agreement in place towards borders & sovereignty, doesn’t have the oil & gas reserves, doesn’t have 150,000 Russian rapists running through the country and sending civilians to Gulags, isn’t occupied by Russia.
and Syria?
***Same principles apply to Syria.
Don’t your “values” end beyond your borders?
***My values with respect to Ukraine started with that Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty, taking nukes off the table which endangered hundreds of millions if not billions of lives. That’s far beyond US borders. Where are your useless values? They are right in line with Putin, because you are a Putinista and you’re not even bothering to pretend to be pushing AmericaFirstian values.
Thank you for making my point by omission.
No legit arguments and more propaganda. I got it. Keep preaching it to your choir.
Look, i know this is a terribly difficult concept to grasp but Ukraine had under 30 civilian deaths as a consequence of the intense fighting between Azov and Donbas separatists in 2019, 2020 and 2021.
Russia doesn’t officially dispute those numbers - it can’t even if it wanted to because that eould require it to admit it’s been in Donbass stirring things up since 2013.
Ukraine doesn’t dispute those stats. The separatists don’t. The International Red Cross doesn’t. The United Nations and UNICEF don’t.
About the only people who do are Qtards and Putin fellators who think the facially paralysed token sexy lady and the overacting old fart lunatics on Russia’s 24/7 tv circle jerk must know something the rest of us don’t.
The only thing they know that we don’t is how much in kickbacks they’re getting from the regime for peddling utter bull.
If you actually think that 75 civilian deaths in 3 years (caused by both sides AND by inanimate objects from past action eg landmines) constitutes a big enough nazi genocide to justify flattening 2.5 cities, displacing 4 million people, threatening nuclear war and saying “next up... Sweden, Finland, 3 baltic states, transnistia and Poland” then away with ye to Stupid-land where the stupidest of stupid people can point at you, the new village idiots’ village idiot, and laugh “hey, now THAT’S a guy who’s stupid”.
Do a research on the “law of interim period”. Also Ukraine planned the offensive to capture the rebel areas since early March.
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