I want to virtue signal just like you! But I'm confused now - should I put a russian flag filter on my Facebook as your sentiments seem to suggest? Or a Uke one? Or an Ethiopian one? Buncha folks dying there. And Kurds! Don't forget Kurds.
Posted on 04/18/2022 10:43:43 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
For days after the Moskva cruiser sank in the Black Sea, Yulia Tsyvova had been desperately searching for information about her son Andrei.
Like hundreds of other Russian families of the crew members, she had not been told whether he had survived the reported Ukrainian missile attack that had sunk the Russian flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
Then on Monday morning she received a call from the Russian defence ministry. Her son was dead.
“He was only 19, he was a conscript,” said Tsyvova, who wept as she spoke by telephone. “They didn’t tell me anything else, no information on when the funeral would be.
(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...
I want to virtue signal just like you! But I'm confused now - should I put a russian flag filter on my Facebook as your sentiments seem to suggest? Or a Uke one? Or an Ethiopian one? Buncha folks dying there. And Kurds! Don't forget Kurds.
The pictures of the ship, damaged but afloat, show a survivable condition for most crewmembers, particularly in the rear compartments. It also shows evidence of orderly withdrawal, hangar bay doors open and lifeboats launched. I suspect if the forward missiles went high order the majority of immediate casualties occurred there, but nothing on the order of half of the ship's compliment.
Poor damage control training could result in asphyxiation deaths of the damage control parties, particularly below decks.
A portion of the sailors were conscripts. IMO many could not swim and if they went overboard, for any reason, they may have drowned.
The picture of the mustered crew shows none with injuries. It is possible that those burned and mutilated are undergoing medical treatment and, for OPSEC purposes are being deliberately kept out of public scrutiny including contact with family.
Remember, the first casualty of war is the truth.
I understand how you feel, Sirius Lee. But having served on a warship, it is kind of hard for someone like me not to think of some young guy, shut into a flooding compartment by watertight doors, or having the bulkheads glowing red from fire on the other side.
I understand this is war. These guys were on a warship engaging in a war that they started, and these things result from that.
I am certain that there were crewmen on that ship whose finger pushed the button to launch missiles at ground targets where people were killed, so I understand that in the minds of many, the button pusher got what was coming to him.
To be fair, if people are going to lose their lives, I would start with people who initiated the invasion, that much is true.
I think there is room to feel something about that person as well. I don’t think it reflects poorly on someone to take that view.
Just my opinion.
BCC, completely agree with you and I’m sure that the millions of men (and now women) who have served in combat situations in navies around the world would concur.
Certainly somebody got out - as you point out, lifeboats lowered and the helicopter bay open. Almost as certainly there are bodies still aboard that never will be recovered. A ship in that condition is an impossibly hostile environment - any sailor who has been to DC school knows that. If you happen to be a conscript who hasn't, when the lights go out and the smoke pours in, it is hell.
Thanks.
The Russian surface fleet reminds me very much of the German High Seas Fleet during WWI, but without that teutonic efficiency. Mostly there just for show and to claim Great Power status rather than actually having much of a reason to exist. Largely a waste of resources in both cases.
Yes. There is no horsing around or posing on Damage Control Teams. In my experience, they trained and ran drills in earnest, and were very good at what they did.
I have always viewed Soviet-er, Russian naval vessels with a bit of a jaundiced eye. The Soviet-er, Russian systems do not lend themselves well to efficient and competent execution, IMO. Doesn’t mean they are all bad, of course, I just wouldn’t expect them out of the box to be that good.
Of course, as the Fitzgerald, McCain, and Bon Homme Richard show, we have our own issues to contend with.
I served aboard a Destroyer. I was near the waterline, loading the projectiles. Only one way out. I would rather be in a foxhole.
I had a couple of summers on board some amphibs, then spent some time on some in the Marines. And yes, I’d rather be in a foxhole too. ;)
I am with the Ukies, but so sad to many so young Russian men perishing here. Just with two strokes of Neptune missiles. There are not enough white people on this planet. We invented everything. So, so sad to young white men killing their Rus and Ukie brothers.
And F Putin.
Report from the 16th
Summary:
Typical day with positional fighting on front lines in terms of fighting, fighting at Izyum.
Key area: Izyum bridgehead. New focus area will be Donbass, Izyum, Mariupol, Kherson.
1. Kharkiv: positional fighting, heavy shelling by Russian troops.
2. Izyum bridgehead: Russian 4TD and 3 mechanized division expanded bridgehead in the west to village of Andriyivka and in the south to village of Dovgenke - both villages are in Russian control. It is extremely dangerous penetration by Russian troops that potentially could lead to large pocket for Ukrainian troops west of Donetsk. New reinforcement on the bridgehead - 106 Airborne Division. There are no signs of 6TB/47TD that originally captured bridgehead.
3. Russian attacks on Popasna, Rubizhne and Severodonetsk, fighting on outskirts of towns. Russian troops captured majority of Rubizhne. Popasna is about 70-75% captured by Russian troops, they control center of the town. Russian mercenaries - Wagner Group operates in Popasna.
4. West of Donetsk: Avidyivka and Maryinka - very active shelling with Russian artillery of all calibers including 203 mm guns. Maryinka is only 25% captured by Russian troops.
5. Vugledar is in Ukrainian hands. Dangerous Russian attack on village of Velyka Novosilka to the east of Vugledar.
6. Mariupol: continuous fighting, heavy shelling by Russian troops using 240-mm mortars, MLRS, FAB-3000 bombs, Russian troops captured all of the sea port.
7. There is large gap between Volnovakha and Zaporizhya thinly defended by Ukrainian forces, Russian forces don’t have enough resources to exploit it. Ukrainian strongholds are towns of Gulyaypole and Orikhiv. Russian 19D is operating there.
8. Mykolayiv: positional fighting, shelling. 14th brigade arrived to the region. Russian troops also received reinforcement - part of 201 military camp - we estimate it’s a brigade size subunit.
These mothers better watch their backs when they speak out in public...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFBOfIiqW0o
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