Posted on 04/01/2022 7:27:07 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
Since you'd rather read....
Obama's and Biden's busy bee....
"Ukraine: The Mess that Victoria Nuland Made"
"As the Ukrainian army squares off against ultra-right and neo-Nazi militias in the west and violence against ethnic Russians continues in the east, the obvious folly of the Obama administration's Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried to ignore the facts, or what you might call 'the mess that Victoria Nuland made'."
Source: https://geopolitics.co/2022/03/01/ukraine-the-mess-that-victoria-nuland-made/
"Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call" (2014)
"Nuland: So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [US vice-president's national security adviser Jake] Sullivan's come back to me VFR [direct to me], saying you need [US Vice-President Joe] Biden and I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets [details] to stick. So Biden's willing."
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
"Victoria Nuland's Admits Washington Has Spent $5 Billion to 'Subvert Ukraine' " (2014) -- eight minute speech by Nuland
And then something to watch -- actual testimony,,,,
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY
IMF had interests alongside the Democrat princelings, sons of Biden, Kerry, Pelosi and a RINO-link Romney. So many Obama-linked, even until today. And $5 billion invested by those interested in "the right direction."
The right direction? "Report: Joe Biden Pressured Ukraine to Fire Top Prosecutor After Burisma Lobbying Effort"
Source: https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2019/11/04/report-joe-biden-pressured-ukraine-to-fire-top-prosecutor-after-burisma-lobbying-effort/
Best wishes.
I don't think we should support Ukraine because they are angels. The internal politics of both Russia and Ukraine are irrelevant to me when it comes to this war. I don't care if the IFM, Soros, or Schwab, or whomever backs certain factions within Ukraine either. I don't care that Russia is a kleptocracy and that Putin is a thug. It is meaningless.
What matters to me is the fact of invasion itself, for which there is zero legitimate justification. The 1994 Budapest Agreements made it explicit that Russia had no right to interfere in Ukraine's internal politics and policies as a sovereign state.
So let's say there really was an illegal, unjustified Ukrainian coup against a lawfully-elected pro-Russian leader. That's still Ukraine's business, not Russia's. It certainly would not have given Russia the right to seize Crimea or support separatists in the Donbass. That would be like claiming that Russia somehow could be invaded because elections are rigged and Putin is a goon. But it doesn't.
Russia does not have a "right" to dictate who runs Ukraine, nor does it have some right to a "sphere of influence" that dictates policies to nations it occupied after World War 2. If this is what it takes for Russia to acknowledge that fact, then it was bound to happen sooner or later as non-Russians got sick of the Russian yoke.
Nothing in any of those links you posted even addresses that.
Applying the word replacement test:
"The United States does not have a 'right' to dictate who runs another country, nor does it have some right to a 'sphere of influence' that dictates policies to [ other ] nations...."
Work for you?
Yes, as a matter of fact, it does. Unless that nation has forfeited that right by unjustified aggression towards other nations. Why are you so eager to assert that Russia has that right, anyway?
I am in no way "eager." The assertion that we could dictate other nations' internal policies and leadership choices is a historical fact.
Playing the word replacement game one more time:
"Why are you so eager to assert that Obama-Biden-Nuland had that right, anyway?"
Alternatively, "why are you so eager to assert that the Biden., Pelosi, Kerry and Romney "princelings" had similar rights?" Or, "Biden had the right to trade a billion of aid for a Ukrainian prosecutor getting fired within six hours."
We wander off into "two wrongs don't make a right." My stance is that the Ukraine and Russia are not NATO alliance partners, and the 1994 Memorandum was a memorandum, not a treaty.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2021-11-24/nato-expansion-budapest-blow-1994
Only two choices? Pick one? Nope, several more.
That sounds exactly like YOUR posting history ... 🤔
The person posting the daily 'flu bro's' thread was just copy/pasting the opening thread daily for a year and a half, and then went to posting Pro-Poo-tin propaganda.
And, who might that 'person' be? Should they be courtesy pinged?
I watched the Oliver Stone documentary a few weeks ago - I came away feeling there was at least some justification for Putin’s actions. It certainly made our government’s role in the color revolution look pretty nefarious. If Stone is a big lib, he didn’t do Obama/Biden any favors with this documentary.
My mind then slips to the belief that Ukraine is an independent country that has the right to make up it’s own mind about governance. Zelinsky was elected, and there doesn’t seem to be much controversy about that fact. As such, he has to lead a country with two distinctly different nationalities. He could be as magnanimous as person could be, but is forced to “pick one” regardless. He picked Ukrainians over Russians. West over East. He certainly has some awful characters on his side - Aszof etc. But I think it’s and “enemy of my enemy” situation.
Everybody is dirty - but Putin threw the punch.
What I appreciate from these threads is the strong arguments on both sides of the issue. I learn quite a bit from each post. What I dislike is the name calling “Putin bot”, “Globalist” etc.
Is Putin a bumbling idiot? I’d say, not historically. But, I don’t see a grand strategy in getting so many of his troops killed, even if half of what we read is true. He couldn’t have expected this. He does have some powerful economic tools in his toolbox The insistence on Rubles for Gas, going to a Gold based economy, and certainly in his ability to alliance with China and many other big players, particularly in the agriculture arena. Though it does seem that China has been preparing for this- by hording grain and such. Putin shrewd and may have intended on making these moves eventually, but I don’t think he intended or expected to have to use these tools now.
I honestly hope this ends with a split Ukraine - Eastern regions under Russian rule and a worthless treaty. Otherwise, I think it’s truly going to spin out of control.
The totalitarian globalist depopulationists use Ukraine as their personal criminal enterprise playground. They are also behind the Fauci/China biological warfare attack and lockdown of the past two-plus years. They are directly responsible for the coming worldwide famine. Their stated plan is to reduce world population by 90% by 2030.
The people backing Ukraine are an existential threat to me and my family and my country.
Vladimir Putin wants to take back some Russian territory that is mainly populated by Russians.
Vlad is not an existential threat to me and my family and my country.
Which would you prefer?
Checking history page Berillium has made 16 posts in the last month with 14 of them being in this very thread. And before that a gap of about a year and a half in which no comment was made. So I guess I would say that Brellium is not quite fitting the profile he describes but is sorta like it. Seems more accurate to say he is somebody that does not comment very often at all that got very active in this particular thread.
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