Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Ukraine War Might Mean Tanks Are The New Battleship (As In Obsolete)
1945 ^ | March 29, 2022 | Peter Suciu

Posted on 03/29/2022 5:18:10 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican

After a Century, Has the Age of the Tank Passed? – As Russian losses in Ukraine mount, the main battle tank (MBT) could soon join the battleship in the boneyard of military history. While a true game changer when the first tanks rolled across the battlefields of Europe during World War I, these metal behemoths could be just the latest weapon from another era whose time has passed.

The truth is that from the introduction of the tanks at the Battle of the Somme in September 1916, enemies have looked at ways to counter the armored platforms. In the final years of the First World War, the German military simply adopted oversized bolt action rifle – the Mauser 13.2mm Tank Abwehr Gewehr Model 18, also known as the “Mauser 1918 T-Gewehr” – yet by the end of Second World War, a variety of anti-tank rockets had been developed.

Anti-tank weapons certainly improved in the years since, and now small man-portable weapons have tipped the scales considerably.

“An infantry that is determined to fight is now super-empowered by having things like a huge number of point-and-shoot disposable anti-tank rockets,” Edward Luttwak, a military strategist who consults for governments around the world, told Insider.

An Expensive Platform

Notably absent from Ukraine has been Russia’s state-of-the-art T-14 Armata – a tank that was touted for its advanced capabilities.

The Armata platform was developed to resist NATO anti-tank shells, including most armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot (APFSDS) rounds; and it features an unmanned turret to help improve the “survivability” of its crew. The T-14 was designed to be equipped with multilayer reactive armor, which is reportedly able to intercept enemy munitions including sub-caliber rounds such as those from anti-tank guided missiles, rockets and RPGs.

(Excerpt) Read more at 19fortyfive.com ...


TOPICS: Russia
KEYWORDS: armor; tanks; war
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-69 next last
To: Pearls Before Swine
Cost of Abrams: $6.3 million
Cost of Dragon: $51,000
Great tradeoff!!

Cost of transport truck: $220,000
Still a good tradeoff!

I'd use them wisely on the dangerous stuff, and .50 cal or 20mm on not so dangerous stuff, just to be sure I had something when needed.

41 posted on 03/29/2022 6:31:28 PM PDT by GingisK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

If the NWO gets established, the approach will be if your social credit score drops below a certain value either your phone will blow up the next time you use it or a drone will be sent to eliminate you.

It is interesting in the comments, nobody has mentioned diversity yet. LOL.


42 posted on 03/29/2022 6:31:36 PM PDT by alternatives? (The only reason to have an army is to defend your borders.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wbarmy
I really believe that we will come up with jamming systems which can knock an ICBM out of flight.

Doubtful. Most ICBMs are designed to launch and then use inertial navigation to deliver their warheads to the dropoff points. Very difficult to jam that.

43 posted on 03/29/2022 7:09:37 PM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: GingisK

NLAWs retail for about 35-40K apiece. Maybe less if your store is having a sale.


44 posted on 03/29/2022 7:11:22 PM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

Yes, tanks are obsolete, until you don’t have any. Best time to have a tank is when the other guy doesn’t.


45 posted on 03/29/2022 7:20:22 PM PDT by Lion Den Dan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 17th Miss Regt

However, there is the initial launch and guidance in powered flight. Along with separation stages and instructions until the separation. Satellites systems could target all of those communications during the flight. And since we have posts in Taiwan and South Korea, it would not be beyond the scope of possibility to be targeting those rockets as soon as they launch.


46 posted on 03/29/2022 7:24:25 PM PDT by wbarmy (Trying to do better.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: wbarmy
However, there is the initial launch and guidance in powered flight.

If you feed the missile computer the targeting data before launch there is no communications which you can jam unless you have a link to update the missile after launch. But usually there is no such link. This would be true for silo launched or SLBM launched missiles. If you can access the launch control flow you might interfere with the launch. Of course, if you can do that you have the keys to the kingdom...

47 posted on 03/29/2022 7:37:53 PM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: jpp113

I’ve read that. What are they moving to? More anti-tank weapons?


48 posted on 03/29/2022 7:39:23 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal is a blood-thirsty fascist yearning to be free of current societal constraints.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

Helicopters will continue to deliver airborne infantry and provide support for awhile. And even anti-aircraft support. An experiment in the 70s put attack helicopters against fighters. Surprisingly the helicopters cleaned house.


49 posted on 03/29/2022 7:46:49 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal is a blood-thirsty fascist yearning to be free of current societal constraints.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: monkeyshine
One thing we could have/should have learned (and maybe we, USA, did) is that ultimately you have to take the terrain.

Drones can be very personal and right in your face. Targeting people and infrastructure and government building and military equipment, is already a thing, and if a drone can get within inches of a target, then, military personnel won't be needed immediately; just soon after the 'targets' are taken out.
50 posted on 03/29/2022 8:06:28 PM PDT by adorno
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants

An experiment in the 70s put attack helicopters against fighters. Surprisingly the helicopters cleaned house.
***Got some kind of link for that?


51 posted on 03/29/2022 8:07:07 PM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

The unstoppable Infantry Soldier advances through the artillery, automatic weapons and rifle fire.


52 posted on 03/29/2022 8:09:31 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer”)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/army-air-force-pitted-jet-fighters-attack-helicopters/


53 posted on 03/29/2022 8:11:16 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal is a blood-thirsty fascist yearning to be free of current societal constraints.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

And if wikipedia is to be believed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-CATCH


54 posted on 03/29/2022 8:13:32 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal is a blood-thirsty fascist yearning to be free of current societal constraints.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants

Fascinating stuff, thank you. I posted to you from an old Harrier thread where I coulda used that info long ago.

My bet is that since the Harrier can match the tight turn slow speeds of helicopters, it can wipe out anything in that scenario. It would seem that the advantage would also go to the F35 due to its ability to hover, but it does not have VIFFing [Vectoring In Forward Flight].


55 posted on 03/29/2022 8:34:37 PM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: GingisK

“AT missiles are pretty expensive.”

It is always a game of economics, isn’t it? A quarter million dollar missile that is guaranteed to kill a seven million dollar tank with troops in it with another million dollars worth of training is a pretty good deal.


56 posted on 03/29/2022 8:43:38 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie (When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau
I kind looked at it as Putin getting rid of old stock...and Ukraine has to spend the time and manpower to clean it up.

Of course. The Russians are spending all the time and supplies on that "old stock", which also happens to be crewed by Russian soldiers who are killed during that Ukrainians "clean up".

That sounds kind of like trying to break the other guy's fist with your face.

57 posted on 03/29/2022 8:44:44 PM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin ( .</I><p>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

Patton disagrees. Bet.


58 posted on 03/29/2022 9:43:04 PM PDT by cranked
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bruce Campbells Chin
Of course. The Russians are spending all the time and supplies on that "old stock", which also happens to be crewed by Russian soldiers who are killed during that Ukrainians "clean up".

The Russians were never that smart (in wars). Their soldiers are cannon fodder.

To be fair, it's the same deal in the U.S. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

59 posted on 03/29/2022 9:47:46 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: GingisK

Depends on the truck. A fuel truck following a tank column? Yes, Dragon-gunner, fire away. Otherwise the PFC next to you lugging the squad’s even cheaper AT-4 gets the shot. Every 3rd or 4th guy is carrying an AT-4.


60 posted on 03/30/2022 3:14:40 AM PDT by Tallguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-69 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson