Crimea held a referendum for independence from Ukraine in 2014. It passed by 95%.
If anyone has any doubts about how the referendum would turn out in the Donbas, they only need to look at this to have their questions answered.
Posted on 03/08/2022 6:22:40 AM PST by Enlightened1
> Agree to hold plebiscite in defined region of disputed territories, and to abide by results. <
Ukraine won’t like that, but it might happen anyway.
It’s a side point, but the United States is all for self-determination...except for within its own borders. There’d be hell to pay should any state decide try to leave the Union, even if a large majority of its voters decided to do so.
(We of course saw that back in 1861.)
Too late. They had this plan for 8 years and dragged on it.
Right. And the next time they choose to invade, they'll be invaded a smaller, weaker Ukraine and will have learned from their own mistakes.
Russia's own actions have made a promise of Ukrainian neutrality a non-starter.
In 2014 Crimea voted in a referendum for independence and it passed with 95%. Donetsk and Lugansk voted for independence through military force. They don't want to be part of Ukraine either.
Are they not entitled to freedom?
We bombed Serbia so that Kosovo could achieve the same goals as these people are asking for.
The Kremlin's demands are perfectly reasonable. Zelenski should accept them and end the bloodshed and the risk of world-wide escalation (except his Western puppet masters won't let him).
The minute you invade your demands become unreasonable.
Crimea held a referendum for independence from Ukraine in 2014. It passed by 95%.
If anyone has any doubts about how the referendum would turn out in the Donbas, they only need to look at this to have their questions answered.
Well, it says even more that the Ukes had years of obvious signs this could happen yet didn’t bother fortifying their own defense capabilities to the maximum.
If they really are putting up the fight the media says, imagine what they could have done with even a years or two in preparation.
US needs to extricate itself from Nato yesterday and let Europe fight it’s own wars this century.
yep
Mass casualties until they agree.
Who says they weren’t? It’s not a big country. What are they’re “maximum” defenses supposed to be?
And Ukraine gets the right to join NATO. That's a face-saving result for both sides that has real potential as a permanent solution.
I'd point out that Ukraine already, as a matter of policy, is on record as supporting elections in the Donbas under the Steinmeier Formula. So it is a matter of ironing out the details, and perhaps some compromise regarding the processes could be reached.
Putin is Stalin-2.
[BTW, Stalin is the pseudonym for Joseph Dzhugashvili from a poor Georgian family. He had used 30-odd last names during his life until January 1913. Dzhugashvili became ‘Stalin’, signing as author of “Marxism and the National Question”.]
Previously President Vladimir Putin had privately threatened to invade Poland, Romania and the Baltic States, according to a record of a conversation with his ex-Ukrainian counterpart.
“If I wanted, in two days I could have Russian troops not only in Kiev, but also in Riga, Vilnius, Tallinn, Warsaw and Bucharest,” Mr. Putin. And I believe his intention is first to :neuter” nations keeping them in compliance to his will.
Then, re-establish old USSR borders.
Putin is now threatening Poland and Lithuania.
There you go, being reasonable again.
No way anybody accepts that even if you had the place or power to offer it.
“The minute you invade your demands become unreasonable.”
Bingo!
At this point it may be best just to agree to save innocent lives and infrastructure. You won’t have to actually agree because all agreements and political lingo are based on deceit and lies. Just say you agree, regroup and fight another day.
There are no “open” elections in Crimea, Lukhansk, Donbass.
There were none in 2014 & there will not be now.
“ Puppet state of Ukraine should have agreed with this before getting invaded.”
Who said they are agreeing with this now ?
Really not that simple. Russia had totally manipulated & invalidated previous election for Donbas & Crimea in 2014.
“ Are they not entitled to freedom?”
So if California wants to break away we should let them ? (Although part of me says yes)
“I think the Ukraine response should be agree to not join *any* bloc...”
Putin might go for that. But he has reason not to trust Ukraine and the West to follow that agreement. From what I have been finding out, NATO agreed not to include the former Warsaw Pact nations in return for Russia keeping out of western Europe. Putin’s incursions in Crimea, Georgia, and Ukraine have been in response to NATO inclusion of Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and NATO courting of Ukraine and Georgia.
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