Posted on 12/20/2021 12:34:12 AM PST by RomanSoldier19
FE/RL –Russia has published a wish list of agreements it wants to negotiate with the United States, as Moscow seeks to fundamentally alter the post-Cold War security architecture in Europe.
The proposals, laid out on December 17 by the Russian Foreign Ministry, call for an end to NATO’s eastward expansion and limitations on the alliance’s military activity in Eastern Europe, including cooperation with Ukraine and Georgia.
While Moscow has sent its proposals to Washington and its NATO allies, it has underscored that it is seeking bilateral talks exclusively with the United States. The White House, meanwhile, has said it will not enter talks without its European partners and allies.
The proposals, which would roll back many of the security advances NATO has made in Eastern Europe and former Soviet states since the late 1990s, come as tensions between Washington and the Kremlin reach a post-Cold War high amid Moscow’s attempts to carve out a sphere of influence in its near abroad.
A senior U.S. administration official called some of the proposals “unacceptable” and said the Russians “know that.” However, speaking on condition of anonymity, the official said other aspects “merit some discussion.” The official did not elaborate.
(Excerpt) Read more at finchannel.com ...
Russia is correct to want to negotiate new Proposals as we’re well past the Cold War period, especially since the old agreements have been breached so many times and do not address this modern age.
Article states........”Russia’s proposed terms also seek to limit Russian and NATO military exercises in a designated buffer area to no more than brigade-level, and would bar the deployment of ground-based intermediate and shorter-range missiles “in areas from which they are capable of hitting targets on the territory of other participants.”
Sounds reasonable to me...both sides co-operating.
As if President Putin cares what senile President FillzPantz’s handlers think.
In any such negotiations, Germany will dominate the European side based on her economic and financial strength, which are now deeply reliant on Russian natural gas. Indeed, without US participation, Germany will tip toward accommodating Russia and will impose that result on the rest of Europe.
The countries of Central Europe between Germany and Russia will then be hard put to resist Russian bullying and encroachments. My guess is that NATO will collapse, with the US then having Britain, Hungary, and Poland as our most reliable allies. And the same voices who ask if we really are willing to go to war for Ukraine will pose the same question as those countries.
On the whole, we are better off insisting that Russia must negotiate with the US and our NATO allies as a group. The first order of business should be a discussion and assessment of the existing Europe treaties and security architecture, which will then be the basis for negotiations as to what will replace them.
This will tend to keep the US and Europe together. Even though Germany is now unified, NATO can then continue to fulfill its other purposes of keeping America in Europe and the Russians out.
Xoe Xiden found borders he does respect...and they are in Europe.
Mark
Russia is still fighting WWII, let alone the Cold War. Good grief, this is Yalta betrayal #2
NATO and BidenIdiot are a house of cards and Putin will continue to prove such.....
Russia (meaning Putin) doesn’t get to dictate terms. Not to the U.S., nor to the Europeans, Ukrainians and Georgians through the U.S. If Russia (meaning Putin) wants a deal, it has to negotiate. Deals involve gains by all parties. Not concessions by any one.
Russia )meaning Putin) has a pretend interest in not being invaded by the west, as though invading Russia is a goal of the west. The west who like to buy oil and natural gas from Russia, export manufactured goods to Russia, integrate Russia in the world financial system, and convert Russia’s railroads to standard gauge so as to facilitate trade with Russia and through Russia to central Asia and China. But, there are other sources of oil and natural gas, and if the west can’t buy from Russia, it can buy from others. We really don’t need any more wars for oil.
As to what Russia (meaning Putin) wants, it is to look strong for political purposes. There are some economic goals: securing Russia’s claim to a large part of the Arctic Ocean, and removing uncertainty from its sale of oil and natural gas to the west. If these were uppermost, we could do a deal. But, it’s not clear that Russia (meaning Putin) wants a deal. Russia (meaning Putin) may actually want the conflict to continue for political reasons.
The Art of the Deal, says Donald Trump, is to determine what the real interests of the parties involved. If the real interests don’t conflict, you should be able to cut through the rhetoric and get a deal. Trump did that in the Middle East and in Kosovo. His no-nonsense business approach got things done, that diplomats could never accomplish.
We, meaning the U.S., Europe, Ukraine and Georgia can include some security provisions such as no siting of offensive weapons in eastern Ukraine or Georgia (or in the Baltic countries for that matter), plebiscites in eastern Ukraine, Crimea, South Osettia and Abkhazia, and protection of minority (meaning Russian) rights in any countries that are members or candidates to be members of EU or NATO. These could be touted by Putin within Russia as significant accomplishments.
A deal needs to be win-win, and if it is, it will probably make better deals possible in the future.
“I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.” - Winston Churchill
One of the most sensible posts I’ve ever read on this forum. Good job.
This is basically the 1961 tank standoff in Berlin writ large.
Russia is “testing” the West to see how strong our stomachs are. With Bidet in the White House, the Russians have nothing to fear.
There will be no war with Russian troops. There will be no nuclear war. The Russian government does not want all their cities vaporized either.
Europe made a grave error cancelling coal too soon and becomming dependant upon Russian gas. Now Pooty has got ‘em by the nuts. And he knows it.
We have 167 troops in Poland, 132 troops in Romania, and 77 troops in Hungary (and even less in the rest of Eastern Europe). Bring up our total to 500,000 and we’ll have a slightly credible deterrent there. Otherwise what’s the point...just to antagonize Russia, or something?
So Russia is antagonized by 167 US troops in Poland? Its called a trip wire force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripwire_force
“So Russia is antagonized by 167 US troops in Poland? Its called a trip wire force. “
You mean what we have in South Korea...maybe - with 30,000 troops. In Eastern Europe what we have there could hold off Russia for what, maybe 5 microseconds. Not every credible.
We’re not defending anyone with 167 troops and Putin knows that we’re not going to send in reinforcements if he moves in.
In high school American students should read the classic Fathers and Sons by the Russian Westernizer, Ivan Turgenev. It will provide an important clue why Russia has never joined the concert of Western nations and exists today on the margin of Western civilization.
The proposals to talk directly with the US are reasonable, given that Europe has long established itself as a non-entity on foreign policy.
French and German participation in the Ukraine peace process is a great example and so is Europe’s handling of its vital energy issues, where they joined Hillary’s war on Russian energy exports on the promise of American LNG, which failed to arrive. Now they are facing an acute energy crisis and not a peep in the Euro media on the true causes of it.
Russian ultimatum of course had no chance of acceptance, but the demands are very reasonable indeed. It’s fun to see NATO excited over the movement of Russian troops inside Russia, yet insist on the right to build up its forces on the Russian border. Tell me why is it bad that the Russian troops are in Yelnya 240 mi from the Ukrainian border deep inside Russia is bloody murder, but the US and UK want to put the division-sized forces in the Ukraine and Baltic states 300 ft from the Russian border. It is not anywhere near the US and UK, yet they say it is Russia that needs to de-escalate.
Your account of NATO's concerns is highly exaggerated, but it has a germ of truth in that like the US, Russia is a signatory to a range of treaties, protocols, and agreements limiting the composition and deployment of its nuclear and conventional forces. Numerous US, NATO, and OSCE releases and reports document Russia's violations of those agreements.
Russia's objective and strategy in all of that have long been clear. In a nutshell, Putin and his regime want to reconstitute as much as possible of Russia's domination of her near abroad as was the case under the former Soviet Union and old Czarist empire. Russia aims to use export of energy resources toward that end, with Germany peeled away from alliance with the US and becoming Russia's primary European economic and political partner based on her being the distribution hub for Russian natural gas.
This Russian strategy has had genuine if limited success -- and at the cost of undermining her long-term prospects of becoming a modern, democratic nation. Russia is caught in the so-called natural resources trap that generates national wealth but in a form conducive to expropriation by a criminal elite that cements itself into power.
The result for Russia is the thuggish and insecure Putin regime. Eventually, when Putin expires, the result will be another scramble for succession like that of the post-Soviet era. Or maybe science will finally deliver nuclear fusion power that zeroes out Russia's oil and gas economy. In any event, Europe, Russia, the US, and the world will be better off having a durable complex of arms limitation and security agreements in place to limit the chaos.
I am sorry, but you are reading a lot of faux analysis by interest groups.
Oil and gas are no more than 14% of the Russian economy nowadays and are becoming less by the day.
The charges of arms treaty violations are mostly phony or irrelevant because they are the reaction to NATO violations, namely the basing of Tomahawks in Poland.
I have no idea what makes Russia a “non-normal” democratic country. Corruption in Russia exists of course but not to the point considered normal in the United States. It is non-comparison. Show me the Russian version of Hunter Biden. There is no blatant corruption of such sort in Russia.
Although, the NATO-led war on legit Russian economic interests is of little help for the purpose of “democratization.”
If you think to undermine the “regime” by the popular discontent based on poor economy to restore the “normalcy” of the “democratic” Yeltsin-style regime, where the average income in Russia was $64 a month the majority would go to all-out war against the West over it.
You fail to understand the actual dynamics within Russian society. CIA makes it look as if everyone is tired with Putin and there are young aspiring pro-Western leaders enjoying the popular support ready to take over.
The reality is exactly the direct opposite. In 1998 the 90% of the Russians were pro-American, now the majority see the game. As for the economic problems they are wiping out the Western-oriented higher middle class in the first place, which is very slim to start with and increasingly disaffected with the West. With visa restrictions, the number of people who have first-hand experience with the US is dwindling to zero and so is American influence.
The average folks perceive the West as a no-good entity through the statements of the US senators, who lied on Trump collusion, Taliban bounties, DNC hacking, imposed sanctions over phony pretexts or outright threatened war over nothingburger.
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