Posted on 09/19/2021 12:10:32 PM PDT by george76
The United States would achieve three objectives by purchasing a number of Shortfin Barracuda submarines from France and then giving them to Vietnam.
First, the Biden administration would repair relations with America's oldest ally. Second, it would supply a rising security partner with newly potent means of challenging China's imperialism. Third, it would test President Emmanuel Macron's commitment to international security in the South China Sea.
This option bears note as France rages over Australia's cancellation of a submarine contract worth tens of billions of dollars. France is mixing justifiable anger (it has lost a lucrative contract worth thousands of jobs) with a healthy degree of hypocrisy (France's government-owned Naval Group was playing games with its timetable, cost estimates, and production/sourcing commitments).
Still, these submarines would provide outsize value to the U.S. and broader international security interests were they built for Vietnam. The Shortfin Barracudas would be very quiet and a major threat to the People's Liberation Army Navy.
Vietnam remains in the control of a communist authoritarian government. That said, its people enjoy a degree of freedom and a heavily capitalist-influenced economy. In 2021, Vietnam is defined by a strong export market and a young, internationally connected population. This population is also hostile toward China — angered by Beijing's arrogant claim that the South China Sea is its own private swimming pool and angered more by Beijing's not-so-veiled expectation that Vietnam exists as its feudal state.
Recognizing China's challenge, the U.S. and Vietnam are moving closer together. Though her trip was overshadowed by the chaos in Afghanistan, Vice President Kamala Harris recently visited Hanoi. Top line: the U.S. knows that Vietnamese sentiments, Vietnam's proximity to China, and its possession of a deepwater port at Da Nang (capable of forward basing for the U.S. Navy) make the former enemy an ideal security partner for the future.
China's threat is growing : The U.S. needs partners.
China says that the South China Sea and all its fishing and resource deposits belong to Beijing. These waters see at least $3.5 trillion in annual trade flows. By militarizing control over the South China Sea, China can extort political fealty from regional states and, gradually, international powers relying on the waters for trade. This is a profound threat to the post-World War II U.S. international order. China cannot be allowed to succeed.
So even as the U.S. rightly consolidates Australia with the new AUKUS security agreement , so too should Washington pursue strong relations with France. While France's pursuit of economic ties with China has undermined Macron's credibility as a leader for democratic values, he has shown sub-surface support for upholding the South China Sea's international status. From a U.S. perspective, Macron is certainly preferable to the isolationist-minded and pro-China Marine Le Pen, who seems set to be the president's major challenger in next year's elections.
Absent U.S. efforts to consolidate Macron, he risks being caught between an ever-present well of domestic anti-American populism (now being fueled by his foreign minister) and Chinese investment offers. Xi Jinping is no idiot. He will sense that now is the time to offer Macron vast new investments in return for his rejection of U.S. overtures targeting China. At the same time, Beijing is holding firm on its threats to Australia . China's message to U.S. allies: Choose between its easy economic boosts and its uncomfortable coercive pressure.
Biden should use the two leaders' upcoming phone call to offer to buy some of Naval Group's Shortfin Barracudas — but only on the condition that most of the submarines are transferred to Vietnam (others can be used for U.S. Navy training and special operations purposes).
China would be enraged by such a deal, seeing it as a means of dramatically strengthening Vietnam's Navy and thus the strategic depth of the PLA's South Sea Fleet . Macron would face a choice: accept an economic boon and support the international values he so eloquently salutes, or show that his rhetoric is paper-thin.
Either way, Biden should make the offer, then let us know what Macron decides. The stakes in the South China Sea demand it .
Let their Chi-com friends buy submarines for them.
This. The French should give the Viet Cong submarines.
The U.S. is broke. We have more debt I'd venture to say than France.
And, we need to fun our own military. Although . . . with Biden and Milley in charge maybe we should just wait and see.
If we were going to do this why not give them to the Philippines are the Indian Navy?
We gave weapons to the Mujahedeen against the Russians. That worked out so well for us.
No, just no!
We could buy them for ourselves.
Diesels are, while somewhat less mission capable,a substantial increment more stealthly.
And we as a Navy are somewhat less capable when it comes to diesel/electric.
If they only operate them in Afghani territorial waters, why not?
Bolivia could also use a couple...
Or if France is inclined to throw their money away let them do it.
Maybe not, but surely there would be a provision that the Vietnamese tell General Milley BEFORE they fire a torpedo so he can then call his Chicom counterpart to let him know a fish is on the way!
Give some to Vietnam, and some to Taiwan and watch Whinny the Xi foam at the mouth.
Thanks
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I like the idea.
“Interesting idea. Worth the read.”
I agree. Unlike China, Vietnam actually tells their people to be friendly to Americans, and they are...genuinely friendly. Of course they’re still Communist, but they’ve already fought a war with China (and beat the crap of them). The war was fought because Vietnam, while still Communist, simply couldn’t sit by while the “Killing Fields” slaughter of Cambodians was going on next door, so they put an end to it, angering China in the process and thereby being invaded by China (and they gave the Chairman a nice black eye in the process).
Only problem that I have is with the price - $90B for 12 subs...uh, no.
On the surface, this idea has merit.
IIRC, a similar idea was suggested during the Bush 43 administration. Taiwan was disappointed, predictably.
That’s the only idea that makes sense. But it’ll never happens because Joe Biden is a friend of the CCP.
Heres my take. This whole nuke sub deal was another gift to China by Joe. It takes years to build these nuke subs. By the time their completed , China will have already attacked or be in complete control of the world’s economy.
Nothing absolutely nothing I mean nothing to any communist government
..
Well first you have to be willing to accent 43% more pay that the average taxpayer who supports you and you have to be willing to accept bribes and also pay them when necessary. After you accept all that then you may be a shew in.
The Vietnamese hate the Chinese.
The U.S. doesn’t have the money to buy anybody ANY submarines, including the U.S.
Tell France and Vietnam to go over to Afghanistan, get our equipment back that Biden and his marxists pals left there.
Then, they can sell the equipment and buy some French subs.
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