Posted on 04/24/2021 5:27:13 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Many big game hunters have established and funded charities and other things to assist the people native to Africa. Shooting trophy animals for meat is a wasted financial opportunity for the locals.
“”We have evolved in our science and understanding since the times when we ‘killed everything we could’. Eventually, we will evolve to realize that there is a Natural way to address everything - as long as we take our overweening egos out of the equation.””...................
You sound like a reasonably smart person so tell me what changed. Can you name one species of animal walking this earth that we don’t have complete control over? One species that has unlimited free range? This natural world you look for stopped the day the human species first walked this earth and can never return unless the human species is totally removed. The biggest problem with so called science is it lacks common sense.
You have no idea what the long-term results of all of that overt’control’ will lead to.
How do you feel about ‘dimming the Sun’? It’s a perfect example of the hubris of many scientists.
Pesticides and insecticides have all sorts of consequences.
Science is what ‘changed’ things; and Science will eventually create a truly informed balance again. But science is driven by men, who tend to be ruled by ego. Until that changes, a lot of our science will be mistaken.
(We’re ‘controlling’ Covid now, with scientific intervention. Have you had your vaccine? There are people who don’t want it - they figure they’ve found a different and more natural way to protect themselves...)
“”You have no idea what the long-term results of all of that overt’control’ will lead to.””
Sure I do, our history on this planet has numerous examples. The Passenger Pidgeon went extent due to humans, other species moved in and took it’s place. Were it not due to our “overt control” Deer, Elk and Antelope would likely be extinct by now. Which brings us back to the topic you strayed away from, Elephants. Were it not for our “Overt Control” the last of the Elephants would have died many years ago, same can be said for Whales. 7.6 billion people have made a huge impact on earth and it’s growing. They demand food, water and shelter and will defend against anything that deprives them of it. It’s been that way from the beginning of time and will remain that way until we pass.
“”We’re ‘controlling’ Covid now, with scientific intervention. Have you had your vaccine?””
I don’t know if it’s a vaccine that’s making the cases drop or just plain old herd immunity. I’ve yet to see convincing evidence. Since you asked No! I haven’t had a vaccine and I won’t have one. It seems our so called scientists, doctors, polititians and media have extreme difficulty in determining whether a person died from Covid or with it. I’m 71 years old and as of this date I’ve had four friends that were listed as Covid deaths, all had serious preexisting health problems.
“”Science will eventually create a truly informed balance again. “”
To create a balance you have to know what that balance is and there’s no way of determining that. My question to anybody saying such a thing is when were we ever in balance? That’s about as silly as saying we can control the variances in Earth Climate.
“”So, you appear to agree with me that the great god Science isn’t always necessarily right - except when it serves your purposes as to overt control of other species, and your right to pay a nasty government many thousands of dollars in order to enjoy yourself shooting an elephant...
Interesting logic...””
Sorry but science has nothing to do with any of my opinion, I’m just using common sense and logic. I don’t let my opinions get clouded with emotion, which you have displayed on a grand scale. Emotion can be very blinding!
So anyway: why do you want to spend thousands of dollars to go to Africa and shoot an old elephant?
Don’t you have more useful things to do with that money?
Hard to answer that question without sounding like a jerk, buy how and where a person chooses to spend their money is no business of yours or mine. It’s a legal service offered to the public and many choose to purchase it.
Why do you fear sounding like a jerk? We all do it here every day.
You certainly have the right to spend thousands of your own dollars in any way that you like; but I’m just wondering where the real value for you lies.
(If you don’t have a better way to spend it, come and sit by me...)
G’Nite!
The world already has enough jerks, we don’t need any more.
To be honest it really isn’t about the money, it’s the challenge/accomplishment, it’s human nature. What some never realize is with humans hunting isn’t a sport or a game it an instinct we’re all born with. No different than any other predator on earth. During our tribal phase the males were judged by their ability to provide for the tribe and their ability to defend it. Honor was bestowed on those who were the providers and defenders. Among native Americans a string of Bear Claws was a level of accomplishment few reached or maybe I should say survived. In Africa things went to a different level, the claws of the big cats, the horns of the larger plains game and the tusks of the Elephant held that same degree of accomplishment honor and respect.
It’s a different world now but we still purse those levels of accomplishment. As a young man I played football, then went into the Army 69-72, worked as a Sheriffs deputy from 73-78. Went into the oil business after that and I’ve been stuck there since. Various levels of accomplishments were made throughout. Even now at 71 I have goals I want to reach. I want to win the World Series of Poker, maybe then I’ll retire.
History tells us in so many ways who we are and while some don’t believe it, it is what it is. We can change a lot in this world but we can’t change who we are.
No one is forcing you Karen. If you are not educated on the subject maybe you should shut your pie hole and learn from the experienced safari people on this thread.
I Spent 3 weeks filming a hunting safari in the bush in Tanzania and I am not a hunter. I did my research on safari hunting and realized I was wrong on a few points and decided to take the job.
From my experience and listening to the locals hunting with a permit is the most human way to taking some of the old animals. The biggest benefit is the price each hunter pays to tag an animal, that money has done a tremendous job at curbing poachers. We have a game warden with us the entire time and told us what we could shoot, there was no free for all. You will always have a warden that can be paid off but everyone I have spoken with in the safari community follows the rules. The majority of the meat goes to the village as well. Having broken bread and developed a friendship with our guides, Maasai warriors, they explained there is a real benefit for all involved.
When you can't fly due to covid restrictions then yes, there is a loss of tourism.
You really are a Karen. Since no one has stooped to your level you project a false narrative. You and your buddy Jussie Smollett are in good company.
Dang! I’ve graduated to ‘Karen’.
Is that above or below ‘Liberal’?
Yes and look what happen, they killed him! Never said we were real bright. Teaching us to be better to each other is a far throw from Genesis 9:3 ( Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.)
I don’t think that just ‘teaching us to be better toward one another’ was the whole meaning of Jesus’ message.
I think He was trying to urge us to evolve in every way, and with regard to everything we encounter in this material life - and He was actually suggesting an ‘evolution’ of the Old Testament dispensation.
What really bothers me about this thread is that some people here seem to operate under the robotic notion that all who generally adhere to Conservative principles must think in exactly the same way about every issue.
Except for mindless ideologues, that simply isn’t true. We all think and apply conservative principles differently with regard to different issues.
I happen to disapprove of ‘sport’ and ‘trophy’ hunting. I think it creates a cachet about the whole thing that isn’t healthy - for the individual nor endangered animals. The impulse for that disapproval comes from what George Washington described as ‘that spark of celestial fire’ - Conscience.
Authentic Conscience doesn’t derive from philosophical or ideological cant and rote, or from anywhere material; and it isn’t intimidated by nameless blokes on the Internet.
My opinion isn’t going to change your opportunity to shoot elephants; and you can disagree with me - which you have done. And , as far as I can recall, you’ve argued your point in a civil manner, without the usual FR blanket epithets and ridicule to which some of’robot mind’ have resorted.
We aren’t going to change one another’s minds.
Thank you for the conversation.
“I happen to disapprove of ‘sport’ and ‘trophy’ hunting.”
I have no problem with that but I do have a question. What’s the alternative? Here on the ranch I can run 16 to 22 head of cows per section depending on weather and pasture conditions. If you run 30 or more they’ll have the pastures eaten down in 7 months. In 2011 we had one of the worst droughts in many years, pastures were eaten down and water was drying up, I lost about 40 cows that year. I had two options that year, either sell them in a very poor market and take a big loss or haul feed and water and take a big loss. I did both but still didn’t manage to save them all.
What I just described happens in Africa all the time and they have to make the same decisions. You have to do one, the other or both just to make sure you don’t lose them all. Africa isn’t the wide open area it used to be and fencing is slowly cutting into smaller and smaller sections. When you restrict an animals ability to migrate or range, you’ve restricted the number of healthy animals you can keep in that area. Now it becomes your responsibility to keep that population under control or it becomes a threat to itself. Too many Elephants for the area and you lose some to starvation and nobody benefits. Cull the population by paid hunts and as many have already said the meat goes to the local tribes, much needed revenue goes to the Outfitters, the lodging and travel and shipping industries. It’s just plain old ranching but on a huge scale.
As some have mentioned it seems the Average Elephant hunt runs about 50,000 for a 12 day all inclusive hunt. It looks like about 40% of that goes to the Government as a trophy fee and the remainder to the outfitter. This doesn’t include travel, Taxidermy and shipping.
So one dead Elephant feeds and benefits nobody but the scavengers, the other dead Elephant feeds and benefits many. Only difference is in the way they die.
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