How Bitcoin is eating the Earth: Computers creating 'worthless' cryptocurrency drive global warming as they use vastly more electricity than all the internet giants combined

Daily Mail UK ^ | 13 Mar 2021 | Chris Jewers

[jdsteel]

“ It’s a ledger entry and is “worth” what others will trade for the “number””

That’s an accurate description of Bitcoin.

And it’s cute when I see people like you that think that bitcoin is indestructible. Block chain is very cool, but anything created by man can be screwed up my man. Remember, the titanic was unsinkable.

[Mean Daddy]

Almost done finishing reading Dr. Thomas Sowell’s book Basic Economics: A Citizen’s Guide to the Economy. It should be taught in every school, but it won’t.

[Oatka]

Run for your lives! Hide your daughters wives and dogs!( heavy sarc.) Buy silver. It will double in a year.

It should be noted that half of the six products advertised at that link have been sold out. I noticed elsewhere that for $50 and $100 face bags of silver as well.

What do those people know that "knowledgeable people" don't? :-)

After the 1980s run up, then collapse, silver has been a bum investment. Now, I think many are looking at the Trillion-Dollar bills being passed and taking prudent action. You may be right on that "double in a year" prediction, though I am looking at it from the preservation of purchasing power aspect.

[enumerated]

“Silver eagles are the coin of the realm... a hundred years from now when silver bars are $100, silver eagles will be much more because of the date and condition of the coin.”

No, that’s not how it works.

The Eagle isn’t worth more because it’s the “coin of the realm” or because it might be rare a hundred years from now. The same mint that makes Eagles also make bars and they trade for the same exact price per oz. None of these coins or bars will ever be rare. They are bought by the millions and hoarded in sealed containers. There is no chance enough could ever be lost or worn down to the point of being a rarity.

You can get about the same price per oz. for a hunk of melted down gold or silver if you get it certified as to weight and purity. The only reason the government issued coins and bullion are worth a few bucks more is because they are already certified.

And if you think the nominal currency value of a coin has anything to do with the value, think again.. a 1 oz silver dollar from 1920 is worth at least $30 right now for its silver value alone, and perhaps much more if it is rare and in good condition. The fact that it says “one dollar” and was used to purchase $1 worth of goods a hundred years ago is totally meaningless.

[Organic Panic]

Value is what’s dr other people think something is worth. In this case a non centralized sans government group. It will not crash like many say. The biggest threat to bitcoin is huge bankers and corporations buying it up to inflate it and it just becomes another tool bankers and investment firms use to scam more money.

[NormsRevenge]

Shades of PT Barnum.. now accepting BitCoin at all circus events.

[roadcat]

The sticking point is that most “hard” currency is no longer hard. It’s all zeros and ones. If lots of people went to the bank and asked for bills and coins, banks wouldn’t have enough hard currency to hand out.

Let's say you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank. You can't request a withdrawal all in hard currency and store it at home. The Feds will raid you and accuse you of being a drug dealer and seize your cash. You can't easily make transactions of cash over $10,000 without be busted. Heck, they'll go after you for structuring if the amount is under $10,000. Most money transactions are zeros and ones.

Now with that $1.9Trillion "stimulus" bill, almost $2 trillion dollars (in zeros and ones) are about to flood the market supply of fake currency, and will devalue the existing money "supply". That's how government creates inflation and robs us of the value of our currency. And people wonder why some are investing in Bitcoin, land and other stores of value.

[zeugma]

The main problem I have with larger bars is that they are generally not as useful as a medium of exchange unless you are buying big-ticket items. 10-oz is really as far as I’m willing to go. If I want higher values, gold makes more sense IMO. I

[zeugma]

You are absolutely correct in the way that the premiums work for silver coins in today’s economy. If it ever truly comes down to barter, I suspect the spread will be less for recognized mints, like the US, UK, and CA. There probably will still be some spread between rounds and actual mint coins.

As long as you’re fine with that, buy what makes sense to you. I kinda like having a bit of everything, but prefer larger mints, mainly because they are more widely recognized, and well known.

[Dick Vomer]

bitcoin is not indestructible. It’s been ‘lost”, and never to be found again.

That’s the downside that many are trying to solve the problem of lost or forgotten keys to the BTC.

I think the BTC channel for transactions is what the disruptive force is. The ability to instantaneously transfer monies in a second between continents in any denomination and currency is the key.

The way that I see this going is that in order to not “forget” your password a chip will be either embedded or a DNA identifier chip will link your BTC to you. In that manner, all transactions will be recorded, no taxes avoided and the “money” is “safe”.

[neefer]

Heck, they'll go after you for structuring if the amount is under $10,000.

I worked at a rural bank and had to take the Fed security training. Pissed me off. They wanted us to flag cash deposits of a few hundred bucks if it was weekly. Don't remember concerns about withdraws. But I've only taken a few thousand out at a time. Not sure what would happen if I tried that weekly or monthly.

[Cboldt]

-- I'd suggest you look up the definition of "money". --

THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE, AND IS REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY, OR AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK

Found on all 1950 Federal Reserve notes. The note could be redeemed for lawful money, whatever that is or was.

[zeugma]

let me get this straight: People use supercomputers to solve math problems with 64 digit answers and who ever solves it first gets a bitcoin as a prize? Thats how bitcoins get created?

I know it sounds weird, but that's really it in a massively simplified nutshell.

Almost all modern cryptography is based on prime numbers. Bitcoin leverages this a bit. It's more complicated than just primes, but a pair of very large primes are the heart of it.

To give you a small idea of the difference between factoring the larger numbers, take a look at this quick and dirty example...

$ time factor 8958200452356091
8958200452356091: 8958200452356091

real    0m0.003s
user    0m0.002s
sys     0m0.000s

$ time factor 258285118849492814941
258285118849492814941: 258285118849492814941

real    0m0.003s
user    0m0.002s
sys     0m0.000s

$ time factor 2313769868514373261031453299297155631
2313769868514373261031453299297155631: 8958200452356091 258285118849492814941

real    0m7.087s
user    0m7.084s
sys     0m0.004s

The above is from a Linux computer that has the 'factor' program installed, which will factor rather large numbers fairly quickly. The number to look at in each of the 3 examples is the one after 'real'. So, I was able to test the primality of the first two numbers very quickly. (.003 seconds for each). However, attempting to factor the much larger 3rd number, which was generated by simply multiplying the smaller two numbers, you can see that the time increases by several orders of magnitude.

I was going to do a bigger example, For instance, 325928985563371356674384180771539 * 6663742992756402236816080367 = 2171906993684118463655790070573355681075427646504235890274813. However, I kicked that off over 2 hours ago, and it's still chewing on that 61 digit number. I'm actually kind of interested to see how long it will actually take.

The reason that primes are important is that there are tricks you can use to determine primality, but actually factoring a number is 'hard' from a mathematical standpoint. There are some shortcuts you can take, i.e., all prime numbers are odd, so you don't need to test those, which actually gets rid of half of the work. When numbers get really large, it takes a boatload of computational time to actually do the factoring. Almost all public-key cryptography is based on this hardness problem, among other things.

This is why I understand the concept of crypto currencies and crypto mining, and can see how you could monitize it to a certain degree. Really though, since there is no army backing the currency, it's 'value' is somewhat arbitrary. I wouldn't be at all surprised if BTC someday replaced tulips as a cautionary tale about the Madness of Crowds.

[M Kehoe]

Hi.

Can I help with your electric bill?

5.56mm

[Trillian]

They love using non existent problems to try to control people.

[Candor7]

You do not want a silver boat anchor? Oh My!

[Candor7]

Great minds think alike. But with silver, its a no brainer. About 20 Ks worth.

[jdsteel]

“The way that I see this going is that in order to not “forget” your password a chip will be either embedded or a DNA identifier chip will link your BTC to you.”

How about a nice tattoo? 666 may be a good way to do it. The chip idea is also cool. Nothing could go wrong there.

/sarc.

[roadcat]

They wanted us to flag cash deposits of a few hundred bucks if it was weekly.

Wow. I never heard of such a thing. I thought they want to be told of deposits in the $8000-$9,999 range. But hundreds?! My wife often takes cash withdrawals of $4000 at a time, and sometimes deposits a couple thousand in cash. We like using cash rather than using credit cards. Of course, I accompany her as her guard so don't get ideas! Lately we've been using $100 bills more and more, and cashiers don't even blink as they hand us change. $100 bills are the "new" $20 bills. The Feds should stay out of everyone's personal business!

[neefer]

I thought it was ridiculous but maybe they wanted to make sure people working in cash were paying taxes on it. There’s a lot of under the table work in our area by people who also collect welfare.