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The Facts about the COVID Vaccines and Fetal Cell Lines
National Review ^ | 20/12/20 | Isaac Schorr

Posted on 12/31/2020 10:32:38 AM PST by Eleutheria5

.....

For pro-life Americans, however, there remains the serious ethical concern over the use of cells harvested from aborted fetuses in testing and developing the various coronavirus vaccines. How is one to make a moral judgment in weighing the cost of taking one of these two vaccines against the cost of waiting for the release of others in which fetal cell lines played no role at all?

Neither of the two pro-life advocates I spoke with on the topic — Dr. Joseph Meaney, president of the National Catholic Bioethics Center, or Dr. Tara Sander Lee, a senior fellow at the Charlotte Lozier Institute and director of its life-sciences program — felt it appropriate to direct others to make one decision or another. Instead, they encouraged individuals to consider all of the ethical factors at play so that they can come to an informed decision for themselves.

First, it’s important to identify the provenance of the cells used in testing. In the case of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, it was HEK 293 kidney cells that were used. These are believed to have originated with an abortion, but note my use of the singular. HEK 293s are not continuously gathered as more abortions are performed. They were originally gleaned from a 1973 procedure in the Netherlands and have since been reproduced in labs for various research purposes. Dr. Lee explained in an interview with National Review that “a fetal cell line is not the same as fetal tissue.” These cell lines began with a cell taken from fetal tissue, but the actual cells used for research were “multiplied into many cells of the same kind.” ....

.....

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortions; antivaxxers; covid; ethics; fetalcells; hek293; kidneycells; kidneys; netherlands; vaccines
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I hear the Pope is ok with the vaccine, if you're ok with the Pope, such as he is. I'm not scheduling an appointment until I speak to a qualified Rabbi. As a general rule, matters of life and death supersede all of the mitzvot except for the admonitions against idolatry, illicit sex, and murder. How this applies in this instance is subject to debate and deliberation above my pay grade.
1 posted on 12/31/2020 10:32:38 AM PST by Eleutheria5
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To: Eleutheria5

Dr. Lee explained ...... “a fetal cell line is not the same as fetal tissue.”... These cell lines began with a cell taken from fetal tissue, but the actual cells used for research were “multiplied into many cells of the same kind.” ....

So the origin IS from a cell taken from a fetus...then multiplied..... however how they do that isn’t stated.


2 posted on 12/31/2020 10:47:40 AM PST by caww ( )
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To: Eleutheria5

1 Corinthians 8 comes to mind.

HEK293 are not fetal cells. They aren’t even human anymore in that they were transformed via viral transduction, then selected for over time for cells that survived and that grew well and were easy to maintain. These selected cells no longer have the human complement of 46 chromosomes.

The initial source of cells used to be modified and selected to create this stable cell line was a girl who was aborted in Europe in 1973. The reason for the abortion or whether it was spontaneous or induced is not known.

The cells are not in the vaccine or used to make the vaccine but we’re used To separately grow proteins that are used in a test to see if the vaccine was functioning right.


3 posted on 12/31/2020 10:54:01 AM PST by ifinnegan (Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
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To: caww

Woody Allen said, “never clone alone”. Just to be neighborly I’ll take his word.


4 posted on 12/31/2020 10:54:56 AM PST by Eleutheria5 ("The impossible happens all the time. You just have to believed." Will Robinson)
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To: Eleutheria5

How again is this different than using the skins of dead Jews to make lampshades? I mean, after all, they -were- already dead, right?


5 posted on 12/31/2020 10:55:25 AM PST by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. .... )
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To: Eleutheria5

On the one hand you have cells created from the source cells
taken in 1973. Not good.

On the other hand you have a lot of living people today that
could be infected if you contracted the disease and spread it.

I don’t think either a yes or no decision is free from moral
weight.


6 posted on 12/31/2020 11:00:54 AM PST by DoughtyOne (foreign collusions did happen, it just wasn't 2016 when it happened)
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To: DoughtyOne

One one hand, red China shouldn’t murder people and sell their organs. On the other hand, those organs could save some lives.

I don’t think either a yes or no decision is free from moral
weight./s


7 posted on 12/31/2020 11:07:29 AM PST by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. .... )
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To: DesertRhino

I don’t know. It’s a valid comparison, but I’m not sure if it’s accurate. This isn’t a lampshade, but a purportedly life-saving vaccine, and the stem cells are not in the vaccine, just were used to develop it, and it’s not from the fetus itself, but from stem cell lines derived from a fetus a long time ago. I’ll ask a rabbi and see what he says.


8 posted on 12/31/2020 11:15:37 AM PST by Eleutheria5 ("The impossible happens all the time. You just have to believed." Will Robinson)
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To: Eleutheria5
First, it’s important to identify the provenance of the cells used in testing. In the case of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, it was HEK 293 kidney cells that were used. These are believed to have originated with an abortion [slain infant]...
9 posted on 12/31/2020 11:24:55 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: caww

“So the origin IS from a cell taken from a fetus...then multiplied..... however how they do that isn’t stated.”

It is a little more complicated than that. The process is well documented but above your paygrade.


10 posted on 12/31/2020 11:26:56 AM PST by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: Eleutheria5

“d the stem cells are not in the vaccine, just were used to develop it”

Kidney, not stem cells although processing was performed so no longer ordinary kidney cells.


11 posted on 12/31/2020 11:29:11 AM PST by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: DesertRhino

“How again is this different than using the skins of dead Jews to make lampshades? I mean, after all, they -were- already dead, right?”

Wrong.


12 posted on 12/31/2020 11:30:05 AM PST by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: DesertRhino

That’s a bit of a stretch to make a point.

First off, I didn’t say taking the vaccine was without moral
weight.

As for comparing an organ harvested from one sacrificed human
to give to another human, that’s a life taken on a one to
one ratio. Heart taken. Man dies. Recipient lives.

That’s not exactly the same thing that is taking place here.

A new abortion does not have to take place for every human
vaccinated.

As a matter of fact, no human has had to die in 47 years,
once the original cell was harvested.

100s of millions of people will be vaccinated to prevent them
from being exposed to a deadly disease.

Do we just let the disease run rampant even though there is
a way to vaccinate against it?

Do we let 1, 2, 5 or tens of millions of people die?

Is that a morally inconsequential decision?

I don’t like the fact that these cells originated from an
aborted baby. Perhaps the most evil part of this is that
they more than likely could have come up with this vaccine
using live human cells.

It’s my take that they used the fetal cell line so they
could forever hold it up and say, “See, we told you these
would save lives and you wouldn’t believe us.”

That was an evil act.


13 posted on 12/31/2020 11:38:00 AM PST by DoughtyOne (foreign collusions did happen, it just wasn't 2016 when it happened)
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To: Eleutheria5

Look, the odds are against you!

There is only a +99% survival rate to this virus!

You have to do whatever you can to overcome those odds...

/s


14 posted on 12/31/2020 12:23:41 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (I'd rather be anecdotally alive than scientifically dead... )
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To: DesertRhino

+1. (Excellent answer!)


15 posted on 12/31/2020 1:28:43 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Life was so simple before the federal government began “helping” us. You got sick, got well, hung around the ink well. Don’t be a fool, you better shoot pool. The pump don’t work because the vandals stole the handle.

But now, I already tried one-upping the mask Nazis by sticking my head up my ass (how’s THAT for protection!), and being just 60 years old with a co-morbidity instead of 65. Haven’t I done enough?! No. Of course not. Now they want me to benefit from research that used a dead baby’s kidney clones, made into monsters with viruses somehow.


16 posted on 12/31/2020 1:30:24 PM PST by Eleutheria5 ("The impossible happens all the time. You just have to believed." Will Robinson)
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To: caww
So, while “the connection with abortion is still there,” she said, Pfizer and Moderna have not been “trafficking in babies’ body parts” in the same way that Planned Parenthood has been accused of. Dr. Meaney concurred with this assessment, calling it “a very important distinction” between reproduced fetal cell lines and fetal tissue, though he stipulates that in his opinion it is “wrong in every case for scientists to work with this material.”

I don't know about you however when I stand before Almighty God I don't want to have to defend my life and how I lived it based on "technicalities" or "very important distinctions".

No good comes from evil and abortion is evil. The fact that cells from an aborted human being were used in any way to develop this "vaccine" makes it the legal equivalent of "fruit of the poison tree."

I'm not taking it, period. It just isn't going to happen. I say that as a high risk individual (immune system compromised) who values the sanctity and dignity of human life at ALL stages.

I know I've gotten a lot of things wrong in my life and when I stand before God I don't want to get this one wrong. I've enough bad stuff He's going to hold me accountable for.

17 posted on 12/31/2020 1:39:12 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: ifinnegan
These selected cells no longer have the human complement of 46 chromosomes.

Respectfully, the fact that these cells can be traced back to the human being that was aborted in the 1970's makes them human in my view.

18 posted on 12/31/2020 1:41:17 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: DoughtyOne

So very VERY well said. Internet Post of the Day.


19 posted on 12/31/2020 1:42:55 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: usconservative

Thank you.


20 posted on 12/31/2020 2:31:07 PM PST by DoughtyOne (foreign collusions did happen, it just wasn't 2016 when it happened)
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