Posted on 10/15/2020 8:24:34 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
A change of pace for you from all the polling doom and gloom lately. Most readers know the name Trafalgar at this point, but for the few who dont: Theyre the firm that called Trumps wins in Michigan and Pennsylvania four years ago when nearly every other pollster was predicting Clinton victories, some by blowout margins. (Trafalgar was the only outfit to find Trump ahead in Michigan in any survey taken that year.) Two years later, with the rest of the field polling field expecting an Andrew Gillum victory in Florida, Trafalgars final poll found Ron DeSantis ahead. Again, they were right, everyone else was wrong.
Their secret is that they try to adjust for social desirability bias, the reluctance of some people to tell pollsters the truth about their preferences for fear of being judged disapprovingly. Robert Cahaly, Trafalgars lead pollster, is of the belief that that effect is especially prevalent among Trump voters. If in fact there are a ton of shy Trumpers still out there who are lying to pollsters which many experts doubt then the polls this year are way off.
Except Trafalgars, perhaps. If in fact Trump performs much better on Election Day than the competition expects, and especially if he does well enough to win another term, Cahaly will instantly be the most renowned pollster in America. The rest of the polling industry will never recover its reputation. Thats whats on the line on November 3, in addition to control of the White House and Senate.
All of that is an introduction for you to the conversation below between Cahaly and Mike Pesca of Slate. If you can spare 18 minutes to listen to the whole thing, please do. Cahaly takes the listener through his approach to polling and explains the importance of social desirability bias, which he believes is even *more* pronounced this year than it was when Trump first ran for president. Thats borne out in some of his numbers over the past month, which reliably show Trump scoring five points higher or more than the polling average. Skim through the latest numbers from Michigan, the site of Cahalys most celebrated success in 2016. Of the last 11 surveys there, Biden leads by eight points or better in nine of them. In the 10th poll he leads by six.
In the 11th, from Trafalgar, he trails Trump by one. Thats an eight-point difference between Cahalys result and the current average of 7.2 points. But Cahaly isnt cowed. He tells Pesca in their chat that he thinks Michigan is the likeliest of the Rust Belt swing states to stay red this year, which completely contradicts the conventional wisdom that Michigan is actually Trumps toughest hold in the region. In fact, Trump had been off the air in the state from late July until a few days ago, when he began running ads again. Id been wondering lately if he was going to give up on the state altogether and focus his efforts on Pennsylvania, treating MI as a lost cause. On the contrary, says Cahaly. Expect another win in Michigan.
Its hard to overstate just how far off the beaten path his numbers are relative to everyone elses, including pollsters that tend to be friendlier to Biden. Trafalgar isnt just expecting shy Trump voters to be a factor. Theyre expecting them to be a massive factor:
What's also interesting about Trafalgar is that they're always biased toward Trump by about the same amount, unlike Quinnipiac where they do have a handful of polls that are better than the average for Trump.
https://t.co/KxJa7WMQJv Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 15, 2020
Via RCP, here are the latest Trafalgar numbers from battlegrounds (although bear in mind that some of these are close to a month old):
Florida: Trump by two
Pennsylvania: Biden by two
Wisconsin: Biden by three
North Carolina: Trump by two
Michigan: Trump by one
Ohio: Trump by four
Arizona: Trump by four
If all of those results held on Election Day, assuming no unlikely Biden victories elsewhere, Trump would win 276-262. Thats right in line with Cahalys forecast for the election, which he delivers to Pesca at 26:00 of the clip below Trump in the mid-270 range. Which is the most encouraging polling news Team MAGA has had in months.
But dont get too cocky. Look back again at the numbers above and notice how tight the margins are. A polling miss of two or three points would be perfectly ordinary for any pollster, yet Cahalys prediction depends upon him missing nowhere. If Biden fares just two points better in Michigan than Trafalgar expects, hell be president. If hes three points better in Florida and North Carolina, hell be president comfortably. And as impressive as Cahalys 2016 polling was, he *did* overshoot the mark on Trump in Michigan, predicting a two-point victory in a state the president won by just three-tenths of a point. If Trafalgars current Michigan numbers are off by the same margin, Biden would win the White House by the skin of his teeth.
Theres no margin for error. The interview with Pesca starts at 10:30 below.
Also, this was interesting....he said Republicans are hard to poll because they are 5 times less likely to participate in polls in general.
Many of the polls dont even try to reach out to Republicans nearly as hard as they do Democrats. Up until this Spring, Ive always been registered GOP. Never, not once, did I have a single pollster reach out to me during that tine: This spring- because I live in a state where you can do so- I switched to Democrat in the primary season to try to keep Sanders out. Sanders scares the crap out of me and I saw Joe as a weaker threat to Trump. So I switched to vote for Joe in the primary. In the months since Ive been a Dem on the books (I am switching back next election) I have had several pollsters reach out to me. Again, when I was a Republican on the books for many years, I had ZERO.
Coincidence? Possibly. But it just seems too bizarre to be one.
The way I see it, Trump has 260, needs 269... so still a slight improvement is necessary.
He needs 270 to win my friend.
I’m expecting well over 300.
We need to face reality. Biden drew almost 20% more viewers than Trump last night. The polls this year probably are more accurate as compared to the 2016 polls being wildly off.
Nope. 269. Ties goes to the states’ delegations, which are 28-22 Republican.
>>>Still cannot fathom how such an extraordinary leader like PDJT is literally fighting for all our lives against a woefully pathetic opponent such as Biden<<<
The Republicans assume People are Informed, but the DEMONcRATS know People are Ignorant.
OR
The Republicans assume People are Smart, but the DEMONcRATS know People are Stupid.
Take your choice, the results are still the same.
I don’t buy it.
Fake polls are not reality. They’re designed for one thing - to demoralize Republicans.
1. I would not put too much weight on the Townhall ratings. People can always go to Youtube to watch Trump or Biden should they missed anyone of them.
2. Despite the huge Trump rallies compared to the pathetic number that Joe is getting, it only shows that Trump’s support has not gone down for 2016, however the polls that show Biden consistently leading does not reflect enthusiasm for him. It however, is an indicator of the enthusiasm to VOTE TRUMP OUT OF OFFICE. Even if it takes voting for an old, senile man to do it, these voters will if only to get Trump outta the White House.
It remains to be seen which of these two enthusiastic groups is larger in number.
Voters have fond memories of Biden - why, I dont know but they do - Biden has +7 favorables and Trump is underwater. Biden is considered the moderate (regardless of reality - perception is reality) and is more acceptable to Democrats than Sanders.
Sanders was a weaker candidate - easily.
I disagree. Even though Sanders has been in politics for a long time, he has a sort of outsider appeal to a lot of people. There are also a lot of people who are too dumb to know how bad socialism really is and be OK with the fact he is one. It would pull out a lot of people to vote for him who are not enthused about voting for Joe and more likely to stay home now. You are correct about favorability but the real issue would be turn out and the fact the Left (and uninformed) would be much more likely to turn out for Sanders.
In either event, even if you were right, a hypothetical Sanders presidency would be far worse than a hypothetical Biden one though both would be pretty horrible
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