Posted on 05/01/2020 9:56:40 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude
Ebola. But even then there’s depth you’re deliberately ignoring. Not all viruses are built equal. Some handle dryness better. Some handle heat better. Some can sit on surfaces longer. Then of course there’s the raw virulence, how much of the virus do you need to get into your body to probably get sick. Conceptually very simple, but where the rubber meets the road, when you’re trying to save human lives, shit gets complex FAST.
And every time ebola pops out your argument is proven wrong.
And now you’re using the “we’ve never gotten it right so let’s give up” argument for permanent ignorance. Except of course we DO get it right. They got it right on this one. They got it right on swine flu. And who knows how many times they get it so right they actually do prevent it. You’ve got to be in the business to know those. You’re like one of those people whining that the hurricane turned left so your area wasn’t hit. They do the best they can with the knowledge they have, they keep trying to grow the knowledge, they keep trying to do better. And they keep finding new ways. We’re now working on family vaccines, might even succeed. Do you want a flu vaccine that stops ALL the flus? No more guessing which strain is doing what and will break out, and often being wrong? That’s on the list of things their working on, a vaccine that focuses on the root of the flu, what all strains have in common, that will just stop them all.
THAT is what this kind of research CAN give us. And if you stop it you’re the enemy. It’s just that simple. Even the commonest of these things kills tons of people around the world every year. And the only way to fix that is research. Maybe if we’d had MORE research they could have had a universal corona vaccine in common usage and this thing never even gets started. That what research is for. And anybody arguing against it is a short sighted fool.
Let’s review. We are in the midst of the worst pandemic in 100 years. Approximately 250,000 people are dead and counting. The world’s economy is in a shambles, hundreds of millions are unemployed and we don’t know how long it will take to recover. The most likely cause is a highly infectious, human pathogenic virus that was in a remote location where it had virtually no chance of starting an outbreak. From there it was taken to a lab (in a major city) to study and it somehow escaped. Even you should see the irony in people who were trying to prevent a pandemic having caused one. IMO all this could have been avoided while allowing research to continue in a safe manner.
You have accused me of being an enemy of research. This could not be further from the truth. I have nearly 40 years of experience doing microbiological research and have worked with many nasty pathogens. I also served as the Head of the Biosafety Committee in a facility with over 1500 researchers.
So how do you do this research safely? One way is to use animal models of viral infection, thereby avoiding human pathogens. They could probably learn 95% of what they needed to learn about zoonotic transmission and spread this way. Another method is to use virulence attenuated strains of the novel viruses they wanted to study. These are proven methods for safely conducting research on human pathogens which minimize the risks associated with collecting data. Its all about finding a reasonable risk/benefit ratio and designing experiments accordingly. As current events have shown, failing to do so can result in global catastrophe. Unfortunately history is not on our side as it seems Virologists STILL have learned nothing from the NUMEROUS accidental releases of extremely dangerous viruses from supposedly secure labs. Have you forgotten that SARS escaped from a lab in 2003? Some additional examples are in the article linked below.
You’re once again making bad assumptions that fly in the face of known facts. You THINK it couldn’t have come out of the wild, but recent history shows that thinking is WRONG. Bird flu, swine flu, zika, SARS, ebola. Things come out of the wild ALL THE TIME. Your opinion lacks factual backing.
Well then stop talking like you’re against research. We know you from your words. And when you spend multiple days talking against research then that’s what people think you believe.
Animal pathogens?! Talk about missing the damned point. We cannot create vaccines against HUMAN pathogens working on animals. Animal research is at best the beginning, and CANNOT account for more than 10%. Changing the strain means you’re no longer working with the strain. Virulence attenuated can be useful for dealing with general families of virus. But if you want to beat Covid 19 you MUST work with covid 19, not some lab castrated version of it.
SARS did NOT come out of a lab. That’s conspiracy nonsense of the highest order. And again shows you have a strong anti-science bent.
“You’re once again making bad assumptions that fly in the face of known facts. You THINK it couldn’t have come out of the wild, but recent history shows that thinking is WRONG. Bird flu, swine flu, zika, SARS, ebola. Things come out of the wild ALL THE TIME. Your opinion lacks factual backing.”
Your comments are full of bad assumptions and misstatements about what I think. I NEVER said Covid couldn’t have come out of the wild, only that it would have been less likely had it not been taken to the lab. In other words the probability of viruses jumping to humans likely increases with increased contact with humans.
“We cannot create vaccines against HUMAN pathogens working on animals. Animal research is at best the beginning, and CANNOT account for more than 10%. Changing the strain means you’re no longer working with the strain. Virulence attenuated can be useful for dealing with general families of virus. But if you want to beat Covid 19 you MUST work with covid 19, not some lab castrated version of it.”
Edward Jenner will be very surprised to learn that animal viruses cannot be used as vaccines against human pathogens. Furthermore the entire medical community will be surprised to learn about the futility of using attenuated or inactivated versions of viruses as vaccines. Look up measles, mumps, etc. In addition to lab castration there are many proven strategies to develop vaccines that don’t involve live fully active viruses. Whether or not those strategies works for Covid remains to be seen. Someone once said that just because it hasn’t worked before doesn’t mean it never will, or something like that. Then again there’s always hope for your universal vaccine.
“SARS did NOT come out of a lab. That’s conspiracy nonsense of the highest order. And again shows you have a strong anti-science bent.”
In your case I have a strong anti-idiot bent. Once again you misunderstood what I said. I did not claim the original 2002 SARS outbreak came from a lab. I was talking about the accidental release of SARS from a lab in Singapore in 2003. READ the article I linked in my previous post.
And now you are a full fledged liar. This is what you said:
The most likely cause is a highly infectious, human pathogenic virus that was in a remote location where it had virtually no chance of starting an outbreak. From there it was taken to a lab (in a major city) to study and it somehow escaped.
So indeed you did say it didn’t come out of the wild. And now you claim you didn’t. And now you are beneath my contempt.
“And now you are a full fledged liar. This is what you said:
The most likely cause is a highly infectious, human pathogenic virus that was in a remote location where it had virtually no chance of starting an outbreak. From there it was taken to a lab (in a major city) to study and it somehow escaped.”
Read the full comment where it was originally posted. This statement obviously referred to Covid and the current pandemic. The VIRUS clearly came out of the wild but the outbreak didn’t. Its generally accepted that the origin of the outbreak was the Wuhan lab. That is what I’ve always said. Nothing in that statement is a lie.
“So indeed you did say it didn’t come out of the wild. And now you claim you didn’t.”
Here’s my response to the awkward and poorly written sentence above. Where did I NOT say that the Covid outbreak came of a lab? Or if you prefer, where did I say the Covid outbreak started in the wild? I think you are mistaking my comment about the 2002 SARS outbreak coming from the wild but the 2003 SARS outbreak coming from a lab. In any case, NOT A LIE.
So are you going to act like an honorable person and apologize for wrongly accusing me of being a liar or are you just going to keep acting like a sniveling little jerk who can’t stand to lose an argument?
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