Surprising Survey in Sweden: Their Elderly Are More Likely To Support Government's Herd Immunity Strategy

The National Interest ^ | 04/30/2020 | by Erik Wengström

[SeekAndFind]

While Just 40% of 15-29 year olds state that the Swedish response has been sufficient, the corresponding figure is 61% for those above 70.

Sweden’s approach to managing the coronavirus outbreak has received considerable attention. In contrast to other countries, Sweden has relied on recommendations about social distancing rather than restricting people’s movements, trusting citizens to follow the official advice.

While other countries have closed businesses, much remains up and running in Sweden, including cafes and bars. People are advised to limit their movements but not required to stay at home.

Within Sweden, the strategy has spurred a heated debate in the scientific community and drawn scepticism for being high risk.

Critics say making social distancing optional preserves the freedom of the young at the expense of the old, who are more seriously affected by COVID-19. But our new study shows that older people are more supportive of the approach taken by the government than their younger counterparts.

In a survey of more than 1,600 Swedes, opinions were certainly divided, with 31% of respondents rating the nation’s response to the outbreak as not forceful enough. Another 18% were neutral and the remaining 51% considered the response forceful enough. But, despite the argument that the strategy comes at the expense of the old, actually increased with age. Those aged 50 and above – those with elevated risk for severe complications from an infection – are most supportive of the Swedish response. While 40% of 15-29 year olds state that the Swedish response has been sufficient, the corresponding figure is 61% for those above 70.

The age gap in the approval rate of the Swedish strategy persists even after accounting for a range of other background variables – including income and education – that could potentially explain the observed pattern.

[mylife]

The old farts are tuff cobbs and little pussys like Greta aint?

[proust]

Big surprise, their culture is rooted in abortion and euthanasia.

[jonrick46]

Sweden is not doing so well. America’s deaths per million is 193 deaths. Sweden’s death per million is 256 deaths. Sweden’s Nordic neighbors, which have lock-downs are, Norway, 39 deaths per million and Denmark, 78 deaths per million. So, everyone should shut up about Sweden being such hot stuff!

[absalom01]

They made the calculation that their health care system would not be overwhelmed, and they’ve been right so far.

All this lockdown has accomplished is to push the infection rate, and thus the death rate out a couple of months into the future.

By the time this pandemic is wrapped up, deaths per million in the developed world will not differ significantly.

Not saying that I would turn down a couple of extra months of life, but this CCP virus will eventually burn through the population. The only question is the timing.

[mrsmith]

I wonder what they actually think the alternative would be.

[Black Agnes]

Their health care system hasn’t been overwhelmed because the elderly by and large are not allowed to use it.

over 80, over 70 with one comorbidity, over 60 with 2 get no hospitalization at all for this virus.

And that’s biological age btw, not chronological age. so if you’re an obese 50yr old with diabetes and high blood pressure...may the odds be ever in your favor because you’re NOT going to be getting a hospital bed.

The swedish authorities ADMIT to prioritizing hospital facilities for younger illegal immigrants in lieu of their being used by older native swedes.

It isn’t all candy and roses in Sweden.

If we death paneled everyone over 60 with high blood pressure who was a cancer survivor, over 70 with diabetes or over 80 at all, our hospitals wouldn’t be overloaded either.

[mrsmith]

Good points.

A couple of months can also mean time to develop better treatments and protocols.

[cherry]

I’m 66....I support letting my country get back to work and play....so ashamed of some of the self centered “elderly” in this country...

[absalom01]

Not sure of your point.

Are you saying that socialized medicine is a terrible idea? I agree with that.

Or, are you trying to make a different point? Sorry, just not following you on this.

best

Absalom

[olivia3boys]

I obediently (I’m German) followed the “15 days to flatten the curve” and then (most of) the “30 days to slow the spread” and spent 40 days (the precise definition of quarantine) from mid March until last week in true quarantine, seeing no one. I didn’t leave my house at all by car and got all groceries delivered.

Meanwhile, my 75-ish year old parents and in-laws continued merrily leaving their homes DAILY, going out for doughnuts, horseback riding lessons, groceries, hardware store, seeing their friends. . .:)

[DoughtyOne]

Sweden still comes in far better than France, Italy, Spain. And the U. K.

The other day their DPM were 40 to 120% lower than these nations.

Folks keep trying to trash Sweden using the U. S., but fail to mention
How much worse those four nations look against us.

I have been questioning if we had to implement this lockdown, and I’m
glad one nation tried to go without it.

Is Sweden a model on other things? No, but who is suggesting it’s a
Model society?

[matthew fuller]

Thank you for that information.

[MAGAthon]

Dr. Ioannidis from Stamford said don’t compared Sweden with Norway, a Norway is sparsely populated. he said better to compare it with Switzerland, which had an aggressive lock-down.

Sweden 241.77 per million
Switzerland 201.49
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Sweden pop. 10.23m
Switzerland pop. 8.57m

30 Apr: NY Post: The World Health Organization’s Swedish flip-flop
By Post Editorial Board
Just last month, the World Health Organization warned that lifting coronavirus lockdowns was the “last thing” countries needed. Shutdowns, it insisted, “are the best way to suppress and stop transmission.”

Or maybe not. Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO’s top emergencies expert, suggests learning from Sweden — which never shut down completely — as a “model” for battling the coronavirus.
In part because its Constitution doesn’t allow a state of emergency except in wartime, Sweden’s (left-leaning) government simply asked its citizens to do prudent social distancing...
https://nypost.com/2020/04/30/the-world-health-organizations-swedish-flip-flop/

re-open the world’s economies now.

[jonrick46]

I wonder why France, Italy, Spain, and the U. K. have such high mortality/million? That will be my next project, is to find out.

[FreedomNotSafety]

Sweden is going through the mass immunity process much faster. The US is going slow. Sweden’s fatalities will start rapidly slowing, the curve is up and down. While the US is taking fatalities over a longer period via the fabled “flattened curve”.

The US dpm is increasing every day and will for a long time. Swedens dpm will also increase but much more slowly.

[FreedomNotSafety]

look at the Netherlands

[FreedomNotSafety]

They have a much better chance of having been exposed. You have yet to face up to it.

The virus didn’t go away. You will have to emerge at some point. When you do it will be with a weakened immune system.

[nathanbedford]

The president tweeted concerning Sweden:

Despite reports to the contrary, Sweden is paying heavily for its decision not to lockdown. As of today, 2462 people have died there, a much higher number than the neighboring countries of Norway (207), Finland (206) or Denmark (443). The United States made the correct decision!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 30, 2020

Do the data support the president conclusion?

On the surface and absolute number of deaths appears to be a persuasive data point but when one compares Sweden to other countries, as the president has done here, one must be careful to compare apples to apples. So the data provided by Doughty One is invaluable because it brings these data into context.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3840320/posts

"The Sweden Study/5 Day Increments" tells us the important relative data among these nations and we learned that deaths per million in Sweden are out of control compared to Denmark, Finland and Norway. The worst case comparison, Finland, reveals that deaths per million in Finland are only 15% of those per million in Sweden. The numbers in Denmark are virtually identical.

On the surface that tells us that failure to socially distance kills people. But If We Look at another Number Provided by Doughty One, "cases per million" we find that Norway is not doing as well as it is in the column deaths per million. The case rate in Norway per million is about 75% of the case rate per million in Sweden.

So the assumption that the deaths are caused by a lack of social distancing does not stand examination of these numbers. They do not explain why the Swedes are losing relatively more patients. Why are more people who are sick dying of the virus in Sweden relative to these other countries? If social distancing is not the answer, is it the healthcare system in Sweden? Are the Swedes being afflicted by a more virulent strain of the virus? Are the Swedes attributing deaths to the virus by other definitions than is being done in these other nations yielding different data?

I don't think we know enough to agree with the president.

On the other hand, to suggest that the death rates in these neighboring countries will catch up with Sweden is also belied by these numbers. If, for example, Norway has 75% of the cases per million but only 15% of the death rate, it does not seem that catching up will change the picture.

The only conclusion is we do not know enough to make these judgments.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you for the comments.

I would only add, that I seriously consider if a moderately
higher death rate is unacceptable, if the society can hold
together much better.

Here we have examples of our food supply coming under
threat. Our oil industry has essentially been destroyed.
We don’t know what is directly ahead. It might be a very bad scenario. I’m not trying to spread the fear. What I
am trying to touch on, is whether saving every life, is
worth costing much more lives due to societal upheaval.

This is certainly a go to school moment.