Their daily fatality index often greatly exceeds the US. IMO, the best model is Korea's.
Posted on 04/22/2020 10:27:30 AM PDT by Kaslin
That would be good. Frankly I don't know the answers to the questions I posed, or your questions, but I saw your statement as (possibly) contradictory to my (anecdotal) experience so I challenged it to see what kind of responses might come along. From you or anyone.
The immune system may be one of the most complicated and amazing parts of physiology.
You very well could have antibodies to the flu, and they do not have to be to specific strains. All current strains that cause infections fall into two categories - type A and type B. Type A is generally considered the more severe type (H1N1, and H3N2 for example) and usually affects adults. Type B are lesser known because they are considered less severe. If you have antibody to Flu A you would be protected against ANY flu strain that falls into that category.
How did you get them? Don’t know how old you are but you said you haven’t gotten the flu in 37 years. Did you have the flu 37 years ago or are you 37 years old and never had the flu at all? If you’ve never had the the flu that you are aware of it’s quite possible that you actually did have it but suffered few or mild symptoms similar to a bad cold. Just like COVID. You can be tested for antibody titers for flu a and flu b if you would like to know.
Check here: Influenza A and B Antibodies, quantitative
Not yet but theoretically the more it goes around, the weaker it gets. Look at what happened to swine flu.
That is the part that is confusing to me. Millions of people have the flu annually and they make vaccines for new strains which prevent people from getting that strain but some still get sick with an even newer strain.
FWIW I just turned 65.
Indeed it is complicated. I’m not too sure even scientists fully understand our immune system’s workings. I intentionally used a contradictory tone in my question/statement to hook a knowledgeable someone into joining the discussion - and caught you. :)
Consider that in 1918 they didn't know that viruses were particles. 100 years sounds like a lot but if you think of it as ten decades you can appreciate the incredible amount they have learned and understand why there is still so much yet to learn.
If nothing else comes of this coronavirus outbreak, I hope it adds the needed emphasis to finally find a cure for viruses type diseases.
“That’s a long way from herd immunity of 60% of 40,000,000 people (the pop. of California).”
Rather than debate how far from, or close to, herd immunity we are - there’s a much more important question we need to answer:
Do we be WANT herd immunity, or not?
If so, then quick send the kids back to school, everyone go back to their normal work, social lives and travel. Toss the masks and go to dinner and see a show.
The only thing people should be avoiding is visiting the sick and elderly in rest homes and hospice when you have obvious symptoms - and that should probably be avoided every flu season.
If we go back to normal we will have herd immunity in no time. If we don’t, it will never happen.
I think herd immunity is by far our best bet - and this social distancing craziness has been a huge mistake.
Yes.
However, at times they prove useful to new pathogens as well.
And, (a) my point is they were developed by the immune system when it staved off an attack BY A PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN PATHOGEN (which many people are doing right now with the Wuhan Virus), which is the central role of the immune system - develop strategies every time some new foreigner comes lurking, and when successful the body then has some “antibodies” for that lurker.
(b) But when (a) has not yet happened, then, for the first time the human system rallies to defeat some new lurker, as most people are doing now with the Wuhan Virus, in spite of not having encountered it before. And THEN there immune system will have saved some antibodies for it. (c) When those antibodies are successful, and when those specific antibodies are called on again, the immune system makes more copies of them.
Never is a really long time. Long enough for a cure or vaccine to be developed. A major unknown, the way I see it, is what are the long term effects of the coronavirus if you catch it?
Will it hide out in our bodies like HIV, or other viruses, waiting for our immune systems to stumble and making it's appearance again, maybe killing the host the second time? I've seen reports of the virus coming back on quite a number. And what about the reports of infertility in males, damage to the heart, kidneys, and permanent scarring to lung tissue?
There are two many unknowns to recklessly go about business as usual without regard to possible future consequences.
Watch Sweden.
They are following a herd immunity strategy and being called reckless.
But they will reach herd immunity in several weeks and be done.
Meanwhile, in the USA are applying a “shut down the economy and wait for a vaccine” strategy which is doomed to failure, because the economy can’t be shut down that long.
We will have no choice but to open the economy back up, and with no herd immunity, the virus will still be there waiting and resume it’s spread and death toll.
What Sweden is doing is what has always been done in the past - herd immunity. What WE are doing is an experimental approach - calling them reckless is absurd - if anything, we are the reckless ones.
Look, I could be wrong about Sweden, and herd immunity - I hope I’m wrong, because if I’m right, the US is making a tragic mistake.
But let’s compare the two countries a month from now.
If by then, Sweden has proved that herd immunity works (as it always has in the past), I hope we will learn from their success and quit this reckless social distancing experiment before the economy is thrown into a deadly Great Depression.
Their daily fatality index often greatly exceeds the US. IMO, the best model is Korea's.
I have been following the conversation, and am inclined to speak up now.
I am over 65 years old, I have a crappy diet, I smoke a pack or two of little cigars every day. I don’t have a doctor, I don’t go for ‘checkups’ and frankly, most of them are just into prescribing drugs to fix everything. I haven’t had any vaccines or flu shots since I was a small child.
However, I am very active. I rarely get ‘sick’. When I do, it is over quickly. Now, what I think is an important part of all the questions about being resistant to being SICK is that I do not believe I should get sick. I do not believe that I will ‘catch’ things from other people.
It has been my experience that people who ‘believe’ they will CATCH the LATEST disease, usually do. I think a major factor in all this is the SUBCONSCIOUS and what MESSAGES you send to it from your CONSCIOUS MIND.
The subconscious will work endlessly to achieve whatever goals you give it. It doesn’t care if they are positive or negative. If you tell it you will get sick, then it can and will refrain from making adjustments to your ‘system’ to fight off disease.
Also, many people do the wrong thing when they get a runny nose. I get one when I work hard outside. You know why? Because that is what is supposed to happen. The body heats up and the nasal passages have to deal with a change in humidity levels, and intake of things like pollen. The mucous flows to remedy these problems. If you take some kind of cold medicine or runny nose medicine, it dries up the nasal passages. Pollutants are not filtered out and end up in your lungs.
That is what I meant by some people are ‘immune’ to getting deathly sick due to things like this virus. As you all have said, the body (and mind -conscious/subconscious) is a very powerful and not fully understood thing.
Your thoughts and beliefs do influence how well your ‘body’ works.
Good words.
Maybe that is why my relatives who take the flu vaccine religiously every year - obviously they worry about getting the flu - still get a severe URI every year.
I for one, wholeheartedly agree. I've always been of the opinion that one lives as long as one generally wants to. I've seen those who kind of give up on life quickly deteriorate, while others with the will to fight, overcome the odds and survive illnesses and injuries fatal to most.
Wow! You're living my life. Or I'm living yours! :)
However, I am very active. I rarely get ‘sick’.
I'm a couch potato and never get sick.
... Your thoughts and beliefs do influence how well your ‘body’ works.
Now I know you're living my life! lol
I don't usually say this because usually no one believes it ... In my teens and 20s I got the flu twice a year. Once in mid-late spring and once around October. At the age of 27 I had a girlfriend who very proudly proclaimed to me that she never got sick because she "refused to get sick."
My first take on that was to get POd at her arrogance. She was a very prideful little Irish gal so it was fully in character for her to be rather cocky about everything. Upon reflection I thought to myself "Cocky or not she never lies. If she says she never gets sick then she never gets sick."
That made me POd that I was putting up with the flu twice a year and she got none because she "refused" to. So I set my mind to refuse to get sick. (If she could do it I could do it, dang it!) Other than the three day minor episode a year or so ago I never have.
One caveat to that all. About ten years after making that resolution I began to seriously study herbal medicine. One of the herbs I collected at the time had a reputation of being a strong antiviral for upper resp. stuff so I carried some all the time. Once or twice in the '90s I felt the sudden onset of symptoms like runny nose or sore throat. I chewed some of that herb immediately and the symptoms were gone within 20 minutes. That was that for whatever was attacking me.
All that said to recognize that I'm not invulnerable but I rarely experience any symptom of UR problems and when I do, or even think I've been exposed, I have an arsenal of remedies to put a stop to it before it gets a foothold. Starting with attitude.
I used to work at a place called UNITY VILLAGE. You’ve probably never heard of it.
One of the many things I got from there was a glass cube with this written on it.
“I am a child of God, and therefore I do not inherit sickness”
I told them I smoked 2 packs a day. They checked my lungs and said my lungs were amazingly clear. They asked me what medications I take, and I told them none. They asked me what surgeries I had had, and I told them none. They told me I was in amazingly good shape for my age.
I was fine after I left the hospital. The ‘sickness’ never came back. I think my body mutinied over the job I was doing so I quit doing it. I asked the doctor what was the results of the blood tests and he said, “no news is good news”. They never did figure out what it was.
So, like you, I can get ‘sick’, but it isn’t because I caught something from someone else. In that case, I think it was because my mind and body were telling me to find different work. It wasn’t something I liked doing and the people I was working for were not very consistent about the details of the job.
The difference between us is that I stay pretty active. I play Disc Golf and do volunteer work on maintaining the courses we play on. It keeps me out in the Sun and the terrain of the courses is often very hilly. Going off the fairway to find your disc often involves climbing up and down very steep inclines and lots of rock and underbrush.
I am kind of a couch potato, in a sense, when home. Not watching TV (I rarely watch TV), but being online with my PC.
Anyway, being HAPPY with the way you conduct your life also tends to keep one well.
May you live until you get tired of it all and (as I plan to do ) then one day just suddenly ‘expire’. It’s the way my Dad went. In the shower, he just collapsed. An ambulance took him to the hospital and he couldn’t be revived. That’s the way I want to go. BOOM, I’m done.
Two months ago, I came home after playing Disc Golf (had three beers and some Fireball while playing). I went out to work on my garage and got up on a three legged step ladder. I had to get on the very top step to reach the nails I needed to pull. Big mistake.
I lost my balance and the ladder went sideways. I fell and landed first on my hip and then like a whip, the back of my head slammed onto the concrete floor. My hip hurt, but I laid there for at least 10 minutes trying to decide if I was going to die. I mean, my head hit really , really hard. The back of my had had a big bruise, and skin scraped off and was bleeding.
Finally I got up and went into the house. The side of my hip I landed on didn't hurt (much) but the other side really hurt. I could even walk without collapsing the rest of the evening.
Next morning woke up and the hip pains were gone. My back actually felt like I had been to a chiropractor and just gotten an adjustment.
Of course my head was kind of fuzzy for about a week. But it's OK now. Most people my age who fell like that would be in the hospital with a broken hip and a severe concussion.
I didn't worry about the concussion because I don't think I have a brain up there anyway. If I did, I wouldn't have gotten on the very top of that ladder after drinking. (I only drink when playing disc golf, btw. I never drink at home)
Agree going out all at once, or in your sleep at night, is the best way to go. And not specific to this case with your Dad, but I'd like to use your statement to bring attention to something I've felt for some time, is dangerous.
And that is taking a hot shower after a big meal, or strenuous work. Your heart is already working hard to digest a big meal or recover from strenuous work or exercise. If you then go jump in the shower, and if you're like me, you like your water temp extra hot, this puts additional stress on your heart as blood vessels open up to cool down your largest organ, your skin.
This puts you in a state where your heart may not be able keep up with the demands placed on it. And those minor blockages may now become deadly - just my theory.
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