What You’re Not Supposed To Notice

The American Conservative ^ | March 29, 2012 | Rod Dreher

[fwdude]

As we are all told, it is wrong, wrong, wrong to stereotype gay men as sexually insatiable and indiscriminate. If you have a negative or even somewhat critical view of gay male culture, you are not entitled to notice things like this Salon article. Excerpt:

If you’ve ever pulled over to a rest area, you’ve been near men having sex. I’m one of those men, I’ve done it a hundred times; we go into the woods or a truck with tinted windows, in a stall under cold light. It never stops, not for season or time. In the winter, men trudge through snow to be with each other, in the summer, men leave the woods with ticks clinging to their legs. Have you ever stopped at a rest area and found it completely empty? There’s always one man there, in his car, waiting to meet someone new.

This has been going on for a long, long time. The new ways that men meet — endlessly staring into phones, searching on hookup apps like Grindr or sites like Manhunt — haven’t changed the fact that we’re still having sex at rest areas, because they offer something different. For the man who is unsure of his sexuality, or unsure of how to tell others about it, for the man who has a family but feels new desires (or old, hidden ones) unfolding inside of him, the website and the phone apps are just too certain of themselves. They’re for gay men who want to have gay sex. Sex at the rest area, instead, abolishes identity; there’s a sort of freedom there to not be anything – instead, men just meet other men there; men who want the same sort of freedom.

The writer celebrates having sex in the bushes and public bathrooms as an existential act:

After awhile I began to develop a strange feeling at rest areas, like I was giving myself to someone. Not that I gave my full self, but that the part of myself I did give was complete. There was no pretense, no awkward conversation or dancing around whether or not I should be attracted to somebody. There was no wondering if someone was straight or gay; there was no sexual orientation at all. We were just there, together, as ourselves.

Years ago, a gay friend showed me a copy of a popular gay travel guide. It included listings for gay bars, gay-friendly hotels, gay-friendly restaurants and attractions. The usual. But it also included information about the best places for men to go to have anonymous sex in public. I thought that was so bizarre. But this was presented in the guidebook as if it were a normal thing for the gay male traveler (but not, of course, lesbians) to want to know about a city.

What I don’t get is why it is only permissible within our media culture to observe things like this guy’s celebration of the rest-stop liberty if you find it something worth celebrating, or at least morally neutral. If you read this and make a negative judgment on this guy and the culture that celebrates his kink, then you are some sort of bigot. In the past, gay friends who want nothing to do with this kind of thing have told me there’s intense pressure within the gay male community not to criticize it, at the expense of being labeled “self-hating,” or some sort of Uncle Tom.

The same dynamic happens when it comes to thug culture and young black males. It is fine to observe thug culture and celebrate its transgressive qualities (valorizing “bitches,” “hos,” pimps, murder, materialism, and so forth), but you can’t look at it and say, “That’s a degenerate way of looking at the world and other people, and anybody who embraces it is messed up.” That would be bigoted.

It all reminds me of my 16 year old self dressing up in New Wave gear, and going to the grocery store in my hometown. If anybody stared at me strangely — which would have been natural, given that most teenagers here didn’t wear get-ups like mine — I seethed inside over how prejudiced, how judgmental they were. But if they didn’t seem to notice me, that bothered me too. For teenaged me, the only acceptable response from others was some form of, “Wow, you’re so cool, you’re such a rebel. I admire you for attracting the scorn of others. They only show how bad they are by judging you negatively.”

Well, I grew up. Most of us do. And growing up means coming to understand that there are consequences for the choices we make. Of course people may judge us unfairly, but we can’t expect to defy social convention and avoid all consequences for our freely-made choices. It may strike you as unfair that the corporation you’ve applied to work for makes you put on a suit and take the ring out of your lip in the workplace, but honestly? Nobody really cares. Because we are social creatures, and have evolved to be social creatures, conformity to a certain degree is inevitable. If you don’t wish to conform, if you wish to despise and reject society and its morals and conventions, you have that right. But own it. You can’t tell ordinary people to go to hell, so to speak, and then expect them to not pass judgment on you. You can get away with that when your 16, if you have parents who love you and are willing to tolerate your nonsense, knowing that it’s just a phase, but the act wears real thin. If you dress like a thug, for example, you should not be surprised when people judge you a thug. If you seek out anonymous sex in rest stops and a significant part of your culture considers that normal and even positive, you should not be surprised when people outside your culture form a negative opinion. That’s how the real world works.

And yes, if you wear a Confederate flag on your shirt and walk into a black neighborhood, or even just into a public place where people may not appreciate the semiotical nuances of your garb, you should not be surprised when people think, however mistakenly, that you’re a racist redneck. That judgment, though, is acceptable in mainstream media culture, in a way that scorning Rest Stop Guy or Thug Teen wouldn’t be. Some rebels are more rebellious than others.

UPDATE: No, I’m not saying that Trayvon Martin brought his killing onto himself by the way he was dressed, if that’s what you’re thinking. I actually have no idea how he was dressed, other than the hoodie. I have a hoodie myself. My white, small-town, middle class 13 year old niece wears hoodies. That means nothing.

[fwdude]

A really old article, but still highly relevant. Perhaps even MORE relevant than when it was written.

[ScottinVA]

Good God, what a sad, debauched existence.

[PeterPrinciple]

Years ago, a gay friend showed me a copy of a popular gay travel guide. It included listings for gay bars, gay-friendly hotels, gay-friendly restaurants and attractions. The usual. But it also included information about the best places for men to go to have anonymous sex in public. I thought that was so bizarre. But this was presented in the guidebook as if it were a normal thing for the gay male traveler (but not, of course, lesbians) to want to know about a city.

---

The homo perverts are well connected and empowered. This was very much part of the early growth of the Nazies.

[FES0844]

Sick world and getting sicker as Bob Grant used to say. Beam me up

[sgt_lau]

And I’m supposed to accept this as being “the same thing as a man and a woman” and if I say otherwise, I’m the messed up one. Nope. Sorry.

[Chickensoup]

25 years ago we moved from our hip local city and a big reason was because of the acting out of the local homosexual population in the park.

and it was normalized and celebrated.

we left with our children.

[RoosterRedux]

Rest stop gay sex isn't about exhibitionism or rebellion.

It is about a sexual addiction that makes heroin look tame.

I remember a friend telling me a long time ago about a party she was at--a party wherein most of the folks were normal suburbanites. A relative of the hosts was the only gay man there and he got kind of drunk.

He started talking about this stuff and answering questions from some of the women who were themselves kind of drunk. The questions became increasingly "pointed."

It was hair curling.

His addiction was akin to that of a movie vampire seeking a victim. He said he needed (as in "was hooked on") that kind of sex where the experience was "dramatically heightened." He took drugs to heighten it but then had to add elements of extreme danger and humiliation.

Even the most heavily intoxicated curious women was grossed out by what they heard.

He had been busted by the highway patrol many times. He had been beaten up and robbed.

The nastier, the better...the more dangerous and humiliating, the better.

Basically, the more evil, the better.

[kearnyirish2]

A very depressing existence.

That climate made it easy for Dahmer to kill them so easily; they took risks most people wouldn’t, and the anonymous sex factor was a big part of it.

[billyboy15]

Gays are miserable people despite what any one of them says. They ALL wish there was a “magic pill” they could take too automatically realign their sexual orientation to normal.

My wife has a girlfriend who is gay and also is friendly with the sister of her best girlfriend who is also gay. I have on multiple occasions talked with them and they are very open about their being gay (but in no way do they flaunt it).

I have asked them directly if they would take advantage of an opportunity to become heterosexual should it become available, be it from taking a pill or thru any other reasonable methods. Both of them said yes and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

[fwdude]

One of the only times I stopped at a highway rest stop, a very large, well-equipped station on a major interstate in Texas, I was proposition simply because I was RESTING in my car on a long trip. The guy had a “good times” 70’s style van. I politely turned him down and left, never going back.

The rest stop was eventually closed, purportedly because the homos had taken over and destroyed the restrooms with their filth.

[PeterPrinciple]

I have asked them directly if they would take advantage of an opportunity to become heterosexual should it become available, be it from taking a pill or thru any other reasonable methods. Both of them said yes and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

---

Homosexuality is a BEHAVIOR. Behaviors are complex, with many causes and many cures. Man is complex.

One of the major causes of homosexuality is imprinting. it is very hard to overcome imprinting.

But what needs to be done is stop the processes of imprinting which is what we gave done in the past.

The second part to be done is to help them understand imprinting. that will help some.

To explain imprinting. a baby chick will follow the first thing that moves. If it is the mother hen, that is a good thing.

kids have a certain readiness, if they exposed to something they should not be at the wrong moment, it causes problems.

This used to be taught in basic psychology, prob not anymore because it is not politically correct.

[fwdude]

People don’t realize how extensive the “leather fairs” are, how they represent the far, outlandish fringe that’s readily accepted as “normal” among most “gays.” Everything is permitted there, the most bizarre, inhuman practices have an enthusiastic following.

And we’re called “hateful bigots” if we point out the obvious.

[AppyPappy]

That was going on when I was in high school. High school kids got paid in those days and I knew two guys “working the rest stop”.

[wastoute]

If you only knew how bad it really is. Turn off safe search and look up “Furry”. If you have the stomach.

[kearnyirish2]

Many blame traditional values for the mental state of perverts, but the fact is that even if they were openly embraced and tolerated to the extreme they’d still know themselves that there is something wrong with them; their lifestyle can’t lead to children, and that is the natural outcome of the sexual act. Their own sex acts are so obviously unnatural, no matter how much others would tolerate them.

[kearnyirish2]

A friend that walks at a county park was furious at the person who referred him to it (he had tired of walking local tracks); he was propositioned several times near the parking area. He thought the people were just very friendly, until it became a bit overwhelming.

The person who referred him told him how he’d parked in the wrong lot; he had erroneously parked in the lot for “Pickle Park” (the section for “those types”)...

[ronnie raygun]

From what I see being gay is about having complete control of the other person and the ability to be irresponsible and arrogant with no repercussions

[central_va]

Sodomites.

[nathanbedford]

Good God, what a sad, debauched existence.

Amen. One might add that it is worthy of our prayers.

But this is a political forum so we must ask ourselves the question what should be the criminal consequences of such activity? Put another way, as repellent as this activity is should society criminalize semi-public sodomy? Put yet another way, is there harm in general to society by this indiscriminate, semi-public sodomy? If so, is criminal law a sensible remedy?

Would it be better public policy to focus criminal laws on objectionable behavior such as harm to minors?

Finally, since we have some brand of compulsory health insurance does the reality that sodomites pose a health risk by their activities and therefore drain the healthcare insurance system, constitute grounds enough to criminalize the activity? If we do that, do we not open a slippery slope to criminalize smoking? Fattening foods? Sugary foods?

Does sodomy done in private present less of a risk to healthcare insurance reserves then does sodomy done in the semi- private?

How private must the sodomy be? Two consenting men in the bathroom stall otherwise unobserved, is that private enough to avoid criminal sanction? Sodomy committed among other sodomites in a group orgy, how does that qualify? Sodomy committed in plain view of a grammar school?

Of course, we are compelled to recognize that the Supreme Court has already immunized sodomy done in private from state criminal control. After we conclude that indiscriminate semi-public sodomy (perhaps even discriminate semi-public sodomy) is wholly debauched, what do we as conservatives want to do about it?

[fwdude]

Yeah, I think every large city has a ‘fag park,’ a park well-known (and published) in the queer community for hooking up for quick, anonymous sex. I know mine did. It was a joke to the teenagers, a place to avoid but which we knew existed.

Undercover cops were deployed to catch such propositioners in an attempt to suppress the problem. That practice is not allowed today. Too “homophobic” to insist people don’t have sex in public.