Posted on 01/03/2020 10:42:52 AM PST by xzins
United Methodism moved closer to formal schism with a new proposal released today negotiated with liberal and conservative groups, including bishops. The plan would divide the nearly 13 million member global denomination into separate conservative and liberal communions.
The mediator for these negotiations was Kenneth Feinberg, the Washington, D.C. attorney best known as Special Master of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund.
Under this plan, conferences (Methodism’s version of dioceses or presbyteries) could vote by 2021 to join the conservative denomination by a 57% vote. Local churches by 2024 could vote by majority. The conservative denomination would get $25 million from current denominational assets.
If the quadrennial General Conference approves this plan in May, when it meets in Minneapolis, the two separate denominations would start there immediately, with separate General Conferences. The liberal church of course would delete United Methodism’s current affirmation of sex only within male/female marriage.
This denominational schism would be historic and largely the first of its kind since the 1840s when Methodists and Baptists divided regionally over slavery.
It’s likely the General Conference, even if it approves this plan, will amend it.
My prediction: General Conference will approve a version of this plan. During several subsequent years of sorting, United Methodism’s current 6.7 million members in the USA will drop to about 6 million. About 2.5 million will join the conservative church, and about 3.5 million will be in the liberal church. Nearly all the 5.5 million overseas members, mostly in Africa, will join conservative church, so the conservative denomination will have about 8 million members globally.
This process will be messy and often tragic. Many local congregations will divide and die. But United Methodism is already dying in America. This division will allow evangelistic-minded Methodism to plant new congregations and grow. American Christianity and society desperately need a theologically cohesive rejuvenated Methodism.
I’m looking forward to participating in a Methodist revival!
We’ll take Christ, you take satan. Okay.
A breakup is long overdue with all of these extreme liberal groups that are allowed to be the spokespersons for the whole denimination.
And the progressives divide us...
The apostate ELCA’s right there, too.
As in the days of Noah, so shall be the days of the Coming of Christ.
It will be the entire lgbtq here shortly. Men in women’s bathrooms, man/girls, bi 3way marriages.
Just watch.
Better to split now.
Don’t be lulled into thinking they don’t want to bring that into the church, too.
Traditionalists aren’t at a disadvantage. Traditionalists have the majority of votes, but the entire hierarchy of boards, agencies, seminaries, and bishops are totally, hopelessly, progressive liberal.
Also, corporate law means you can’t just close. You have to settle up any outstanding contracts, debts, etc. and divide money. Better to let the liberals keep the liberal things they’ve built and get a new start with a clean slate.
That is UP TO 4 years to leave. A church can vote right away to leave. But some church might have trouble with factions in their church they have to deal with...one side or the other. This way they get up to 4 years to make a decision.
Yep. It instituted a traditionalist church and the progressives refuse to obey. They never will. Better to just split.
John Wesley would turn into John Baptist
A retired UMC pastor friend once told me that three things hold the “denomination” together: 1) pension benefits for clergy, which keeps most clergy from speaking out Biblically, 2) the UMC stock portfolio (too many little old ladies leave their estates to the church), and most importantly, 3) the real estate portfolio which includes almost every single UMC church building in the nation. And every one of these three things is controlled by the pagans, hence the conservative majority in the pews is rendered moot. Methodists are not renowned for their passion and zeal, hence those “conservatives” in the pews put up with it. I would not and was shown to door.
The $25 million being allocated from general funds is just shade, the real issue is the $25 billion in local congregation properties.
Gramsci’s ideals were enacted in pseudo-Christendom as well as every other public institution in the culture.
“Thirty something years ago the talk was about the “gay agenda”, which of course was denied. But I remember those warning of the agenda saying their goal was to “infiltrate churches”.... here we are, and have been for a while.”4
Any time an organization agrees to “consider” propositions that are antithetical to the mission of the organization — in this case the celebration of sinful living — that organization is done for. It may take a while for the funeral, but it is dead.
Raised Catholic, I became a practicing Methodist for 17 years after my marriage. Methodists have no mission to the poor which, as a Catholic, I found appalling. This gay thing, makes no effing sense to me, as we had a gay minister female, daughter of a Methodist minister, and she was married to a female. The issue was just ignored. Anyway, after my divorce I left that cold and empty place and now practice no religion.
The following goals of the Communist Party, USA were entered into the Congressional Record on January 10, 1963:
1. U.S. acceptance of peaceful co-existence with communism.2. U.S. promises to surrender rather than engage in atomic war.
3. U.S. acceptance of the premise that total disarmament would be a sign of moral strength.
4. "Free trade" with communist nations.
5. Long-term "loans" to Russia and communist satellites.
6. Foreign aid to communist nations.
7. United Nations recognition of Red China.
8. UN representation for each of the Soviet satellites.
9. Acceptnce of the UN as mankind's "only hope."
10. The use of court decisions to undermine the constitutional rights of Americans.
11. Using the public schools to teach socialist and communist propaganda, and to "dumb down" students.
12. Communist control of campus newspapers.
13. Use of student riots to trigger public protests against U.S. policies.
14. Infiltration of the press.
15. Control of mass media.
16. The degradation of American culture and art.
17. Controlling art critics and museum directors to promote ugly, repulsive, and meaningless art forms.
18. Repeal of all laws banning obsenity.
19. Promotion of pornography and obscenity in the mass media.
20 Establishing homosexuality as normal and natural.
21. Infiltrate churches to replace revealed religion with the “Social Gospel" and deny the truths of scripture.
22. Banish all prayer from public schools.
23. Discredit the Constitution as old fashioned and a hindrance to international cooperation.
24. Discredit the founding fathers as slave-owning aristocrats who despised the common man.
25. Promote all movements aiming to centralize government control over cultural and social agencies.
26. Transfer arrest powers from the police to social agencies and reduce all behavioral problems to matters only a psychiatrist can handle; for example, arresting and imprisoning parents who use corporal punishment or home-school their children.
27. Infiltrate the psychiatric profession and use it to promote "mental health" laws to oppress those who oppose social disintegration caused by the Communist program.
28. Undermine the institution of the family, encourage promiscuity, and easy divorce.
Therefore:
Lutheran (EL C S*A) Ping!
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Christ is Born, Glorify Him!
The August 19 date refers solely to the adoption of the gaysbian agenda, NOT to the “Full Communion” agreement.
I’m guessing it’s because liberals are more entrenched in the power structure and they don’t give a damn about ‘being fair’... just like the liberals in our general larger society.
Yes, it’ll be harder on our side in the short run - but in 50 years we’ll still have belief in God - and they’ll be selling their empty church buildings for a loss.
The ELCA disaster of August 2009 happened in that city as a tornado touched down across the street from the venue.
What makes him think there's a crying need for any sort of Methodism?
Why is it the conservatives that need to leave?
United methodist church, kind of like harmony baptist church. If you get two baptists together they’ll split and form three new churches. I hope that when the sodomites split they’ll take the gun control faction with them as well. Maybe the real methodist church can get back to it’s roots.
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