Posted on 12/09/2019 11:21:14 PM PST by knighthawk
The Democrats believe that the 2020 election is too important to be left to the voters. It’s obvious that President Trump withheld defense aid to Ukraine to pressure its president to commit to the investigations that he wanted, an improper use of his power that should rightly be the focus of congressional investigation and hearings.
Where the Democrats have gotten tangled up is trying to find a justification that supports the enormous weight of impeaching and removing a president for the first time in our history.
They’ve cycled through different arguments. First, Trump’s offense was said to be a quid pro quo — a phrase cast aside for supposedly being too Latin for the public to understand. Then it was bribery, which has lost ground lately, presumably because of the inherent implausibility of the charge.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
We’re not a democracy, so.....
Shhhh.... Don’t tell the democrats. They’re way too stupid to figure it out themselves.
The world’s gone crazy because the majority should be overwhelming in shouting it from every roof top that the Democrats are engaging in such witchhunts because THEY CAN NOT WIN.
The dems don’t want a democracy much less a republic.
They want a socialist utopia (communist government).
“It’s obvious that President Trump withheld defense aid to Ukraine to pressure its president to commit to the investigations that he wanted, an improper use of his power that should rightly be the focus of congressional investigation and hearings.”
That sentence from this article seems like a fairly important point to me. In other words, yes he did what they say, no it’s not worth removing him from office for that. Seems like a legitimate stance to me, but I don’t see many Republicans saying it.
Democrats are a threat to democracy
Even as “shoo-in” 2016 candidate Clinton underhandedly tied Trump to Russia and blamed both for the DNC server hackings,
the Obama admin cunningly downplayed Russian interference in the election so as not to taint Clinton’s widely-expected victory.
But, after Trump won, a clearly peeved Obama vindictively retaliated. In late December 2016:
<><> Obama expelled Russian diplomats,
<><> Obama closed Russian diplomatic facilities,
<><> Obama imposed sanctions on Russia’s military intelligence service (GRU)
<><> Obama sanctioned four of GRU’s senior officers.
LONG READ HERE https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/10/07/not_all_about_the_bidens_why_trump_has_ukraine_on_the_brain_120635.html
The retaliation by Obama seems to be an attempt to bury all traces of evidence with savage presidential power.
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Therein is the lie.
President Trump did not withhold ANY aid to the Ukraine and did not threaten the loss of said aid to the Ukrainian President. The Ukrainian President has said more than once he did not know the aid had been delayed and that he felt no pressure from President Trump to open an investigation. Ambassador Sondland (the only Fact Witness in this entire fiasco) even testified President Trump said there would be no Quid Pro Quo.
These lies are being said/written constantly in the hopes everybody will think them immutable facts when they are just plain lies.
The 2020 election has been rigged before the 2016 election. Through ballot harvesting, “community organizers”, tally manipulations, etc. It will be a miracle if the House goes back to the repubes.
You are correct, once the story came out about the quid pro quo Trump did release the aid that had been withheld, and the Ukrainian president who is still completely reliant on US aid for his country’s continued survival does refrain publicly from saying that US president manipulated him.
But your quarrel is with Rich Lowry not me.
I’d have to agree with that. Pretty clear the President did what they say he did, and what he did was inappropriate, but not a crime. Impropriety is a political issue for the voters to consider next November, not grounds for impeachment by Congress.
It”s also important to remember that the Democrats are not acting in good faith, and that they don’t actually care about whether the President withheld money from Ukraine. They’ve broadcast their intent to impeach him from the moment he was elected (and even before that), and the only real reason is that he is not a Democrat,
The charge isn‘t as obvious as the sentence suggests. In fact, the ambassador even said that Trump told him that he wanted ‘nothing from Ukraine‘.
Also, the President of Ukraine has said there was no such discussion.
How, then, can we jump to such a wild conclusion, a conclusion that flys in the face of statements made by two individuals with direct knowledge?
The writer isn’t really paying attention.
I mean the discussion is directly there in the transcript the White House released.
Uke: We want to get the missiles.
Trump: You have to do me a favor though.
That is pretty obviously saying getting the missiles is contingent on doing the favor.
I think you should re-read the transcript. The ‘favor’ had nothing to do with the missiles. It was in an entirely different part of the conversation. It had nothing to do with anything other than being part of a sentence, and thus, part of the call.
The president of Ukraine didn’t place any specific meaning on the ‘favor’ so why should anyone else?
Now you are factually wrong. Here’s the actual quotations from the call report, with nothing taken out in between.
Zelensky: “We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next
steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.”
The President: “I would like you to do us a favor though
because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. “ then Crowdstrike and Bidens in that same paragraph.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf
Bottom of page 2, top of page 3
President Zelenskyy: Well yes, to tell you the truth, we are trying to work hard because we wanted to drain the swamp here in our country. ... You are a great teacher for us....
The President: Well it's very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine
In the general flow of the conversation, it is clear that the President wanted Ukraine to clean up their swamp, to wit:
1) Ukraine recognizes they need to clean up the swamp.
2) The favor was going to be asked in regard to this.
3) The Ukranian president wanted to assure Trump that his country would make a purchase as a way to recognize that the US was helping Ukraine more than the European countries.
The fact that Zelenskyy mentioned the purchase doesn't mean that was the price of the 'favor'. In fact, if you read straight through Trump's dialogue, you can see that the 'favor' was simply part of Trump's previous statement. The entire 'we do a lot for Ukraine' line was the set-up to the 'favor'-not the missile purchase.
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