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An excellent article by Sundance regarding China. Worth the full read for sure.
1 posted on 12/07/2019 5:35:04 PM PST by datura
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To: datura

The Pope will be so sad


2 posted on 12/07/2019 5:37:56 PM PST by butlerweave
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To: datura

Then we should lift the sanctions on North Korea and apply them to the Peoples Republic of China.


3 posted on 12/07/2019 5:38:39 PM PST by Alas Babylon! (The prisons do not fill themselves. Get moving, Barr!)
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To: datura; Fred Nerks

Really great analysis here:

“The actual goal of President Trump’s U.S-China trade reset is a complete decoupling of U.S. critical manufacturing within China. President Trump does not express angst, frustration, or even disappointment over the U.S-China trade discussions because the decoupling is well underway.”


4 posted on 12/07/2019 5:40:10 PM PST by Candor7 ((Obama Fascism)http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2009/05/barack_obam_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: datura
Every time North Korea has launched a missile over the sea or made some nutty proclamation in the last year or two, my gut reaction has been "Do they really mean that?"

I'm inclined to believe that Trump's personal meetings with Kim are yielding greater fruit that we may presently realize. The problem is, Kim is walking an unenviable tightrope between China on one hand and his own government on the other. The potential threat to him from hardliners/malcontents in the NK regime should not be underestimated. Doubtless, Trump understands this. Maybe that's why he has been so "forgiving" for Kim's actions sometimes. He knows that Kim has to look strong... or else.

North Korea may be at the most perilous point in all its history. Much more so than the Korean War. Which will Kim favor: his longtime Chinese masters or a nascent friendship with the outside world via President Trump?

Thanks for posting. Very good article.

6 posted on 12/07/2019 5:46:14 PM PST by Ciaphas Cain (Liberalism destroys everything. It's time to destroy liberalism instead.)
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To: datura

Great article, and the author is exactly right : Un is Xi’s bitch.


12 posted on 12/07/2019 5:57:49 PM PST by libh8er
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To: datura

Not only is this CTH, but it’s Sundance, and I can get more accurate info from the local mediums and witch doctors than him...

Kim is desperate for some attention because he has slid so far down Trump’s list that he is rarely mentioned anymore. Considering the ZERO progress on the DPRK front for the past year, this would carry almost ZERO weight as a negotiating chip. Guaranteeing denuclearization would be big, but this threat is just more of the status quo.


13 posted on 12/07/2019 5:58:24 PM PST by ETCM
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To: datura

Per the article

President Trump achieved his goal when no-one was paying attention. The goal was a decoupling from China on economic terms. Strategic decoupling has been underway for over a year. There is no actual intent to reach a trade deal with China where the U.S. drops the tariffs and returns to holding hands with a happy panda playing by new rules. This fictional narrative is a figment of fantasy being sold by a financial media that cannot fathom a U.S. President would be so bold as to just walk away from China.

For almost three years U.S. President Trump has been working on two connected objectives: (1) removing the threat posed by North Korea by severing the ability of Beijing to use the proxy province as a weapon (Kim is hostage to China); and (2) deconstructing the growing economic influence of China.


14 posted on 12/07/2019 6:00:50 PM PST by tired&retired (Blessings)
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To: datura
As it is, reverting back to bicycles and rickshaws would improve beijing's air pollution.

        Image result for rickshaws

16 posted on 12/07/2019 6:05:13 PM PST by chief lee runamok (expect nothing)
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To: datura

Hate this guy but he has a good point.

Sobmission to China in the “trade war” = favorable actions by NK and Iran.

Trump is having none of it.


17 posted on 12/07/2019 6:07:18 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts (M / F) : Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat/RINO Party!)
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To: datura

China is suffering a slow death by a thousand paper-cuts. The bleeding of cash in combination with the direct loss of $75 billion in annualized exported products that U.S. companies have now sourced from alternative ASEAN nations is biting hard.
********************************************
Well, let’s administer ANOTHER THOUSAND paper-cuts.


18 posted on 12/07/2019 6:07:22 PM PST by House Atreides (Boycott the NFL 100% — PERMANENTLY)
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To: datura

Not that President Trump needs my advice....

But if Sundance is right our government should publicly state in advance that any NK ballistic missile launch would be viewed by the US as conclusive proof of a Chinese decision to not negotiate in good faith on US-China trade. And that the already proposed US tariff increases would be implemented. That’s China.

As for NK, I would create a completely separate track and offer them a positive way forward that gives them a reason to gradually separate from PRC control. Something small, for now, that they can pursue without getting controlled by China.


19 posted on 12/07/2019 6:10:51 PM PST by plymaniac
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To: datura

Trump is playing them like the Dems. Trump is the first American president in a long time to put US interest first.


20 posted on 12/07/2019 6:25:20 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Everyone who favors socialism plans on the government taking other people's money, not theirs.)
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To: datura

I don’t know why we pay any attention to this insignificant country. Simply tell them we have a nuke missile sub in the area that can completely level all of North Korea should they try something, and then just ignore them.


22 posted on 12/07/2019 6:39:22 PM PST by Husker24
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To: datura

I wonder how many us politicians are on the take from China? Start with Pelosi!


28 posted on 12/07/2019 7:44:53 PM PST by lecram (Marcel L'Heureux)
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To: datura
An excellent article by Sundance regarding China. Worth the full read for sure.
I agree.

Beijing Yanks DPRK Chain – North Korea Envoy: “denuclearization is already gone out of the negotiating table”…

Posted on  by 

China controls North Korea; essentially as a proxy province.  As a result Beijing controls the messaging from the DPRK.  Chinese Chairman Xi Jinping is the captor and North Korean Chairman Kim Jong-un is the captive – it’s essentially a hostage dynamic.  The historic objective has been to use DPRK aggression as a hedge against the west.

Predictably there was going to come a moment when Chairman Xi realized the trade negotiations by his adversary, President Trump, were a hall of mirrors.  The U.S. President has played China by using their own panda-mask strategy against them.

 

President Trump achieved his goal when no-one was paying attention. The goal was a decoupling from China on economic terms.  Strategic decoupling has been underway for over a year.   There is no actual intent to reach a trade deal with China where the U.S. drops the tariffs and returns to holding hands with a happy panda playing by new rules. This fictional narrative is a figment of fantasy being sold by a financial media that cannot fathom a U.S. President would be so bold as to just walk away from China.

For almost three years U.S. President Trump has been working on two connected objectives: (1) removing the threat posed by North Korea by severing the ability of Beijing to use the proxy province as a weapon (Kim is hostage to China); and (2) deconstructing the growing economic influence of China.

Both issues are directly connected to U.S. national security; and both issues are being approached by President Trump through the use of economic leverage to achieve national security results.

In the dynamic of the denuclearization of North Korea, the projected Beijing narrative was Chairman Xi Jinping playing the role of magnanimous panda and *guiding* Chairman Kim Jong Un into the world of nations.  This strategy was pure cunning; as it would look magnanimous to the world, but Xi would always retain control over Kim…

The Magnanimous Panda ploy was a false optic; and President Trump through direct contact with Chairman Kim knew it.

President Trump portrayed himself as buying-in to the Magnanimous Panda scheme of Chairman Xi.  However, the unorthodox approach of having frequent contact and direct communication with Chairman Kim Jong-un muted Beijing’s control as puppeteer.

The Beijing central authority, while negotiating with President Trump over trade issues, did not initially realize that President Trump was also wearing a panda mask.

President Trump looked like he was being earnest, deliberate and patient; but in reality President Trump was achieving his goal.  Here’s the ‘ah-ha’ moment.

….The current status with China was the final objective.

President Trump is not currently engaged in a substantive trade agreement in the formal way people are thinking about it.  Instead “Phase-One” is simply President Trump negotiating the terms of a big Agricultural purchase commitment from Beijing, and also protecting some very specific U.S. business interests (think Apple Co.) in the process.

The actual goal of President Trump’s U.S-China trade reset is a complete decoupling of U.S. critical manufacturing within China.  President Trump does not express angst, frustration, or even disappointment over the U.S-China trade discussions because the decoupling is well underway.

China is suffering a slow death by a thousand paper-cuts. The bleeding of cash in combination with the direct loss of $75 billion in annualized exported products that U.S. companies have now sourced from alternative ASEAN nations is biting hard.

The direct outcome is also a drop in China’s purchasing of industrial goods they would normally use in the manufacturing process. This lack of Chinese purchasing is one of the top reasons for the stall in the European economy.

Donald Trump spent 30-years openly advocating for the principle of restoring American wealth. That meant the economic pressure would continue until China was decoupled from influence over the U.S. economy.

President Trump used tariffs and threatened more consequential action as it relates to non-tariff barriers, IP protection, forced technology transfers etc as a result of China reneging on their May 2019 agreement.

Additionally, President Trump was openly engaged with North Korean Chairman Kim Jong-un throughout; telling the world North Korea was already no longer a threat, and muting the ability of Beijing to use DPRK aggression against the economic confrontation.

In hindsight every move since early 2017 including: (1) the warm welcome of Chairman Xi Jinping to Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate; (2) the vociferous praise poured upon Xi; (3) the U.N. sanctions where China and Russia agreed; (4) the November 2017 “golden ticket’ tour of Asia; (5) the direct engagement with North Korean Chairman Kim Jong Un; (6) the strategic relationship with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe; and a host of smaller nuanced moves were all quietly building toward the goal of decoupling from China.

President Trump outmatched Chairman Xi in this economic confrontation by allowing Beijing to underestimate Trump’s resolve.  While Chairman Xi thought he was outmaneuvering his rival, it was President Trump who was wearing the Panda mask all along.

There was always going to be a moment when China realized what was happening.

It was also predictable China would react to the realization by returning to their historic leverage against such economic confrontation.

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) – North Korea’s ambassador to the United Nations said on Saturday that denuclearization is off the negotiating table with the United States and lengthy talks with Washington are not needed.

Ambassador Kim Song’s comment appeared to go further than North Korea’s earlier warning that discussions related to its nuclear weapons program, the central focus of U.S. engagement with North Korea in the past two years, might have to be taken off the table given Washington’s refusal to offer concessions.

“We do not need to have lengthy talks with the U.S. now and denuclearization is already gone out of the negotiating table,” he said in the statement made available to Reuters. (more)

On December 15th the next round of tariffs against China are likely to go into effect.

All of it is controlled by Beijing and all of the activity is in direct proportion to Chairman Xi realizing that President Trump is decoupling the U.S. from China.

 

 

 

29 posted on 12/07/2019 7:46:26 PM PST by Bratch (IF YOU HAVE SELFISH IGNORANT CITIZENS, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SELFISH IGNORANT LEADERS-George Carlin)
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To: datura

Calling Kim a hostage is inaccurate.

A hostage implies someone innocent, someone forced into a situation against his will, and who has a place to go back to when released. None of these applies to Kim; his idols were his brutal dictator father and grandfather; he was implicated in the murder of his half-brother long protected by China; he has been making money doing all kinds of illicit things like counterfeiting US dollars, etc.

Rather than captor and hostage, it is more like a symbiotic relationship where China is using NK as a hedge against the West, while Kim is getting everything he needs from China so he can continue the family tradition of being a dictator in his own country.


31 posted on 12/07/2019 8:06:58 PM PST by sun7
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To: datura

Imports and exports make up less than 15% of our GDP. That makes the U.S essentially a closed economy. Despite the hand wringing and bed wetting of globalists, the U.S does not NEED trade with any other nation.

On the other hand, the U.S represents 27% of the world’s GDP. Except for backwater hell holes where the people survive on less than $2.00 a day (about 3.3 billion people), EVERY OTHER nation is critically dependent on trade with the U.S.

The Chinese economy is in free fall. Their major source of hard currency is Hong Kong and they are hard at work killing the only goose laying golden eggs.

The DPRK has no economy to speak of. When famine hits this winter the 27 million starving citizens will go north into China, and China cannot absorb a humanitarian disaster of such magnitude.

S*cks to be them.


32 posted on 12/07/2019 8:31:19 PM PST by Natty Bumppo@frontier.net (We are the dangerous ones, who stand between all we love and a more dangerous world.)
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To: datura

I agree. Excellent read. Makes sense. Trump is a very shrewd businessman above all else. One doesn’t get to be a billionaire otherwise. Couple that with his ‘America First’ philosophy/goal and this really makes perfect sense.


33 posted on 12/07/2019 9:38:21 PM PST by Boomer (Epstein didn't kill himself...)
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To: datura

The only thing that is knowledgeable, without reference to anything else in the article, is that North Korea will likely demonstrate additional missile tests.

The reason for that is because it wanted removal of U.S. sanctions before any agreement on anything else and Trump wants an agreement on denucleariztion before ending any sanctions. The talks began and ended on a dead end.

The rest of the article is the author’s own speculations.


41 posted on 12/08/2019 5:44:37 AM PST by Wuli
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To: datura

Denuclearization was never on the table. Not from North Korea’s standpoint. China or no China.


44 posted on 12/08/2019 3:46:42 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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