Posted on 11/18/2019 4:47:55 AM PST by Kaslin
Next to a nuclear strike, foreign invasion, or global pandemic, it’s hard to imagine something as bone-chillingly terrifying as a second hot Civil War. The first one was bad enough, what with the endless carnage and the deaths of over 620,000 soldiers in a time when the U.S. was sparsely populated and wartime technology was in its relative infancy, at least compared to today. Even if the military withheld its most destructive weapons, a modern hot civil war would be disastrous on a scale that’s barely imaginable.
It’s a prospect no sane person wants, even on the fringes of the right or the left. Yet, in today’s polarized age, most people now genuinely believe civil war to be a very real possibility. An October Georgetown Institute poll found that the average American believes we are “two-thirds of the way to the edge of a civil war,” while a solid majority believes that “political, racial, and class divisions are getting worse.”
From where I’m sitting, it sure seems that way, and it’s a topic that’s getting an increasing amount of coverage in the media from both conservative and liberal perspectives.
The Atlantic devoted its entire December issue to the topic of “How To Stop A Civil War.” Interestingly, it includes an article relating how marriage counseling techniques can help bring some sense of mutual understanding to people on both sides of the political spectrum. Because in truth, the kind of ‘contempt’ that research says ends marriages for good, the kind that left and right clearly have for each other these days, could very well end our nation.
In an article for The American Conservative titled, “Civil War Begins When The Constitutional Order Breaks Down,” Michael Vlahos writes of a “daily torrent of unfiltered evidence” that suggests that “our constitutional order is fissuring before our eyes.”
Leftist author Joseph Natoli, writing for CounterPunch about the “Looming Shadow of Civil War,” sardonically but accurately described how conservatives see the ideological opposition: “Liberals retain the old tax and spend/baby killing on demand profile, taking from working Americans and giving to lazy shirkers and on the way killing babies. The profile grows darker: gay marriage, gender choice, LGBTQ rights, amnesty to illegal aliens, open borders, confiscation of guns, cars, cattle, Jesus, Robert E. Lee and white privilege. The ‘extreme Left’ and Progressives have a thinner profile: Communists.”
The left, then, according to Natoli, sees Trump supporters as being motivated by “ignorance and stupidity at the top of the list, followed by racist, bigoted, misogynist and homophobic. In brief, if you voted for Trump, you were a troglodyte with a gun.”
Now, which of those characterizations appears more accurate and which are just a personal attack? Does the left not favor abortion, tax and spend, gun confiscation, and open borders? Don’t they, for example, incessantly yammer on about the ridiculous, nonexistent concept of “white privilege?" The only thing slightly offensive to some might be the “Communist” label, but many on the more extreme left likely only publicly eschew that label for fear of turning people off.
Trump supporters, of course, don’t cotton to the idea of being labeled as “racist, bigoted, misogynist and homophobic,” not to mention "ignorant" and "stupid," by condescending, virtue signaling leftists full of their own self-defined "morality." Yet, at least for now, we are all in the same boat, as HBO host Bill Maher pointed out in a somewhat-joking, mostly-serious “Real Time with Bill Maher” segment on Friday night. To Maher, the “single shining truth about democracy” is “sharing the country with assholes you can’t stand” in the same way families don’t typically choose their Thanksgiving dinner guests. (Sure, we all know who he’s talking about when it comes to “assholes,” but that doesn’t negate the overall point).
“You don’t get to choose the guests, because those freaks are your family,” Maher joked. “Think about that the next time you think you can own someone politically. Think about how you can see politics so differently from people who share your very blood.” The HBO host lamented the desire, on both sides, to “own” the opposition - a tactic that never actually changes minds - before grimly observing that, while a second civil war may sound “impossible,” it is actually “is not.”
Then the comedian, like Natoli, juxtaposed how both sides see each other: “We all talk about Trump as an existential threat, but his side sees Democratic control of government the exact same way. And when both sides believe the other guy taking over means the end of the world, yes, you can have a civil war.”
“We are going to have to learn to live with each other or there will be blood,” Maher soberingly concluded.
“We are going to have to learn to live with each other or there will be blood,” Maher soberingly concluded.
Is he right? It’s a bit lengthy, but I highly recommend read this article titled “How America Ends.” In it, Atlantic senior editor Yoni Appelbaum acknowledges both the demographic plight faced by the political majority in America – something “no rich and stable democracy has ever experienced” – along with the fact that democracy is imperiled when one or the other side feels hopeless at the prospects for future electoral victory. A 2020 Trump defeat, writes Appelbaum, would “only deepen the despair that fueled his rise, confirming his supporters’ fear that the demographic tide has turned against them.”
“When a group that has traditionally exercised power comes to believe that its eclipse is inevitable, and that the destruction of all it holds dear will follow, it will fight to preserve what it has—whatever the cost,” he continued. Appelbaum’s ‘solution,’ as it were, is for the rise of a center-right party that embraces immigrants and minorities in the same way the Democratic Party expanded its tent in the 30’s.
The article truthfully lays out the landscape in a way that few liberal publications have acknowledged, but the ‘solution’ it offers is simply more of the same. Can America survive when its elites are, against the will of a majority of Americans, importing millions of immigrants from cultures that have little to nothing whatsoever in common with that of the current citizenry? To Maher’s analogy, we may not “choose” our family any more than we “choose” our country-mates, but imagine the tension at Thanksgiving if said “family” included different members every year brought in at random with absolutely nothing culturally in common with the original members. At what point does the concept of assimilation, something that predictably isn’t mentioned in the article but has always been the key to a stable country, become impossible? Still, just turn some into right-of-center conservatives, Appelbaum smugly advises, and all will be well.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for recruiting minorities of any stripe into the conservative tent. Hispanics and African Americans who are courageous enough to outwardly support President Trump, despite the pushback they get from their own communities, have my unending respect and gratitude. However, when has ANY conservative leaning party been able to recruit even Hispanics, the group with which they have arguably forged the greatest inroads, at a level that could equal electoral victory in a Hispanic-dominated state? Even George W. Bush, for all his pandering, only managed to win 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004. Most political analysts concede that even Texas will go blue by 2024, if not sooner. What chance will Republicans have on a national scale then?
Thus, the apocalyptic concerns of Michael Anton mentioned in the Atlantic article, laid out in his seminal 2016 essay “The Flight 93 Election,” are even more concerning now than ever. And contrary to Appelbaum’s contention, it is in fact Trump and his supporters who are trying to save America from collapse by curbing immigration to manageable levels. Because as daunting as the prospect of a civil war may be, many conservatives would choose that and all that goes with it – if some form of extreme federalism or non-violent secession doesn’t work – any day of the week over the even more disturbing prospect of being dominated by the political left for the foreseeable future.
The last three years have exposed the rot that has invaded the United States, as in the socialists and their brainwashed zombie followers. People with morals are reaching their breaking point.
“Kaizen”
Can’t Wait,
/$
Well said, but I've said this before: the Democrats better be careful what they ask for. If they manage to get rid of Trump and that beach is still walking around free, it's war!
It only took one to three generations of government schooled ( socialist-entitlement schooled) voters to give the nation two Roosevelts and Woodrow Wilson.
Compromised Christians were compromised to be comfortable with socialism in the nation’s government (socialist-entitlement) schools.
Gee! If the government can force neighbors to give parents tuition-free schools, why not use that power to force their neighbors to give them **lots** of “free” stuff?
Yes, ....and the Church will be held accountable before God.
Briefly, mainly because I am typing on a soft keypad on a mobile device...
1: organization - identifying sides/factions, solidification of attitudes and beliefs.
2: psyops - posturing, name calling, any activities short of direct conflict which are intended to bolster the strength and moral position of the groups defined in phase 1. May include deceit and red flag operations designed to sway opinion.
3: combat/conflict - when the disagreement turns hot and physical force is used to attend to eliminate the opposition. This may include insurgent actions, terrorist type attacks, or direct military exchanges.
4: resolution - when either 1 of more opposing sides is totally defeated, or all sides exhaust at least 1 necessary resource and must move to terminate the conflict. Federally called peace, but usually just a reprieve that allows the resurrection of stage 1 activities.
A vary large population of the military originates from the south, and I don't think they will be very anxious to fire upon their own families. I actually see them deserting, defecting, and bringing some of their high-tech war toys with them.
Anyone who thinks a Civil War would be the armed and skilled against the unarmed snowflakes is fooling themselves.
I have observed that more and more gun owners in my part of the country are getting out and learning to be quite proficient with their firearms and practice with them regularly. Individual and multi-gun competitions, combat rifle and pistol competitions, and long-range rifle competitions are becoming very popular. I made a comment to my wife (who herself is a concealed-carry instructor and multi-gun competitor) when we last attended a very large shooting competition: "So, this is what all the hunters and fishermen are now doing in the off-season."
Waiting for the call!
Two things:
1) I believe that we have already passed that critical point at which a return to the rules governing our society - specifically, “When your side loses an election, you accept the loss and begin planning to win the next election” - is possible. People on our side (including myself) see our next loss on the national level as the last election. The Dems have been aching to permanently cement themselves in power since WW2, and have taken the concrete step of vastly changing the electorate with the 1965 Immigration Act. It is widely known and accepted that they cheat in virtually every election - and that there is nothing that can be done about it. The Left wants power - power that it will achieve at any cost. Once they have it, they will abuse it so that said power is permanent. We can look forward to a disarmed civilian populace, court packing, massive waves of immigration that will make prior ones look small, etc., etc. The only possible speed bump is one Donald J. Trump, acting on behalf of the very people that the Dems have been targeting for several decades - and he is packing the courts (legally, of course), curbing immigration, etc. He’s even reaching out to Hispanics and Blacks, whom the Left believes they own. So there is no reconciliation. We’re already in a civil war, it just hasn’t involved much in the way of shooting - yet.
2) “Appelbaum’s ‘solution,’ as it were, is for the rise of a center-right party that embraces immigrants and minorities in the same way the Democratic Party expanded its tent in the 30’s.”
That is utterly unworkable. In the midst of setting up a new party, the Dems will win the Presidency, guaranteed, as the right splits between the Republicans and the new party. A similar result would occur in the Congress.
Once they win the Presidency again, it is basically all over, and it is definitely all over if they win control of the Congress also. We see this already, as a Republican Presidency has been utterly shut down with the Dems controlling just the House.
The Left IS a bunch of Communists, whether they wish to call themselves that or not. Communists are just socialists with guns and the willingness to use them to obtain/maintain their power. No compromise with them is possible, as they want the entire pie and will settle for no less.
The demwits are the only ones staging CWII. We’ve sat back and done nothing.
I think all this civil war talk is generally 24 hour news cycle/social media driven. I’m not convinced civil wars are even possible when so much of the population is generally so comfortable and entertained. The poorest people are the most likely to be obese and are the most entertained poor people ever. They are also generally unused to hard physical labor outdoors in all weather. Has there ever been a civil war with conditions like these? Granted these conditions are very new, so I guess one argument would be ‘there’s a first time for everything.’
A solid, real world warning sign might be if eligible voter turnout gets a 15-20% bump in 2020. That would put it around 75-80% probably. I doubt it happens. The people who choose not to vote have outnumbered the turnout for either political party for 100+ years. Voting is a pretty low bar for measuring how much folks really care in my thinking.
Freegards
“I honestly believe the number of people who actually give enough of a damn about this country to fight a civil war over it is very small.”
“We have semi-auto rifles and various gear. They have choppers and armored vehicles with night vision and 50 cal guns.”
Going head-to-head with Abrams tanks and Apache helicopters is a guaranteed ticket to an early grave. F$%^&*@ with their logistics and personnel at other times is far more effective and less risky.
Don’t take offense, but I have no idea how you could be friends with a Liberal/Dem. Cordial and courteous? Absolutely, as long as they reciprocate. I’m not saying you have to hate the guy, but other than a...hi - how are you - have good day ...I can no longer speak to one. Hats off to you for having the ability to sit there and listen to him.
Anywho....
“It didn’t change his mind, but it sure did give him pause.” ............ it didn’t give him pause because like all the others, they think nothing will happen to them because they pretend to be kind, caring and compassionate.... Open Borders?? Yes sir, just don’t live in my neighborhood.....Refugees??? Yes sir, just don’t live in my neighborhood .... Every kid deserves a chance??? Yes sir, just don’t start bussing all the hoodrats and illegals into my kids school ...
I’ve posted this link before. If your friend lives in the city or urban area, he should read this and take heed to what is being written. The cities are where it’s all going to begin.
It wouldn’t be a civil war in any case. It’s likely to be nation vs. nation with both arising from within one country.
I’ll give you a Thumbs Up on that. Yes I will.
For argument sake, lets say that happens. Their areas will very quickly fall apart in every way imaginable. And they will soon start showing up, or trying to, in the middle where life is good and thriving. All one has to do is look around the country...former ‘Red States’ that have been destroyed by the Left....Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Virginia....next on the chopping block.....Arizona, Texas, Montana, Idaho, Georgia.
And their arrogance and smugness prevents them from accepting any blame for what they bring.
We are in a civil war. The shooting just hasn’t started yet.
“Don’t take offense, but I have no idea how you could be friends with a Liberal/Dem.”
No offense taken. I’m in MA, everyone is a lib/dem.
I have old friends from a long time ago, before everything got so polarized.
I simply don’t talk politics anymore.
But major changes to society generally follow some form of Catastrophe Theory This is why bridges suddenly fall down and the unexpected happens. This why CW2 will happen unexpectedly. And it will be "catastrophic" LOL.
The good news is that we control the food, we control the gas, we control the electric grid. We control all the wheels that makes society function. When the power goes out in the dead of winter, who are you going to call, a liberal pajama boy. LOL.
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