The Hong Kong Protesters Aren’t Driven by Hope “We might as well go down fighting.”

The Atlantic ^ | November 12, 2019 | Zeynep Tufekci

[fieldmarshaldj]

The more I read about Eisenhower, the more I realize how rotten he was. Folks forget that he eviscerated the Republican Party when he was President, and it took 40 years to repair the damage (by which time, the damage done to the nation was incalculable).

[Thud]

It isn't one-sided.

https://twitter.com/ThomasVLinge/status/1196069105633243139

I have been impressed by the restraint and professionalism of the regular Hong Kong police in videos I've seen. The State of California used pay me more than $100k a year to review police firearms incidents. The HK police shooting of one protestor was justifiable by federal and California state law.

[Thud]

oops, should have been “used to pay me”.

[hardspunned]

Trump is doing what is our best defense against the Chinese threat to America. That threat is economic. If the Chinese invade Taiwan tomorrow his response should be 100% economic. I care as much about what Chinese do to Chinese as the Chinese would care if Alberta invaded North Dakota.

[Reeses]

These people ARE heroes and hopefully it can provide the spark of revolution.

Confucius say: He who interferes in other's fights often wipes a bloody nose.

This fight is Hong Kong socialists vs. China communists. The USA shouldn't get involved. Despite China stealing Karl Marx's intellectual property and not paying any royalties for it, the Chinese version of communism will implode under its own power just like all other communist reigns of terror.

[fieldmarshaldj]

It ain’t imploded, yet. Although I understand Nixon’s reasoning behind it at the time, I think it was an error in the long run to open up China as he did (although Truman bears the greatest responsibility, since he could’ve helped to defeat Mao).

[Zhang Fei]

[A group of peasant soldiers was marching somewhere in China long ago.

“What’s the penalty for arriving late?”

“Death.”

“What’s the penalty for rebelling?”

“Death.”

“Hey brothers! I got news for you! We’re late!” ]

---

Initially, they were a small part of a movement - the equivalent of movie set extras - where senior dynastic officials had already usurped power, with the First Emperor’s most trusted advisor, the Chief Eunuch, having killed the emperor’s hand-picked heir. Once that happened, I expect everyone, aristocrat and peasant alike, thought someone had fumbled the ball (of imperial legitimacy) and the throne was up for grabs.

The overly-neat, tied-up-with-a-ribbon, parable-driven nature of Chinese historical narrative makes me suspicious as to whether the events described actually happened, but the “calling a deer a horse” loyalty test always gave me a kick, regardless of the truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Gao#Calling_a_deer_a_horse

Its analog in the recent past would be this passage from the Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago:

[ At the conclusion of the conference, a tribute to Comrade Stalin was called for. Of course, everyone stood up (just as everyone had leaped to his feet during the conference at every mention of his name). ... For three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, the stormy applause, rising to an ovation, continued. But palms were getting sore and raised arms were already aching. And the older people were panting from exhaustion. It was becoming insufferably silly even to those who really adored Stalin.

However, who would dare to be the first to stop? … After all, NKVD men were standing in the hall applauding and watching to see who would quit first! And in the obscure, small hall, unknown to the leader, the applause went on – six, seven, eight minutes! They were done for! Their goose was cooked! They couldn’t stop now till they collapsed with heart attacks! At the rear of the hall, which was crowded, they could of course cheat a bit, clap less frequently, less vigorously, not so eagerly – but up there with the presidium where everyone could see them?

The director of the local paper factory, an independent and strong-minded man, stood with the presidium. Aware of all the falsity and all the impossibility of the situation, he still kept on applauding! Nine minutes! Ten! In anguish he watched the secretary of the District Party Committee, but the latter dared not stop. Insanity! To the last man! With make-believe enthusiasm on their faces, looking at each other with faint hope, the district leaders were just going to go on and on applauding till they fell where they stood, till they were carried out of the hall on stretchers! And even then those who were left would not falter…

Then, after eleven minutes, the director of the paper factory assumed a businesslike expression and sat down in his seat. And, oh, a miracle took place! Where had the universal, uninhibited, indescribable enthusiasm gone? To a man, everyone else stopped dead and sat down. They had been saved!

The squirrel had been smart enough to jump off his revolving wheel. That, however, was how they discovered who the independent people were. And that was how they went about eliminating them. That same night the factory director was arrested. They easily pasted ten years on him on the pretext of something quite different. But after he had signed Form 206, the final document of the interrogation, his interrogator reminded him:

“Don’t ever be the first to stop applauding.”]

[Zhang Fei]

[The more I read about Eisenhower, the more I realize how rotten he was. Folks forget that he eviscerated the Republican Party when he was President, and it took 40 years to repair the damage (by which time, the damage done to the nation was incalculable).]

---

By not evicting the Chinese from Korea, Ike paved the way for the Vietnam War. He basically punted. I’m not a JFK fan, but some of his problems arose from Eisenhower’s inaction. It’s a travesty that Ike allowed Batista to be toppled. Without Castro in power, there would have been no Cuban missile crisis. And Kennedy was right - you can’t simply threaten a nuclear-armed adversary with nuclear annihilation when he’s holding your kin hostage with the threat of nuclear retaliation. The US needed a conventional deterrent, and not Ike’s BS about a “military industrial complex”, on his way out the door. Since Ike’s time, the civilian component of government spending has tripled as a % of national economic output, whereas military spending has gone down by 2/3.

[Impy]

I can’t imagine why Hong Kongers would not want to make it easier to extradite their citizens to Gulagland were due process is a western fairy tale.

But honestly, I don’t care what the protests are about, eff the Chicoms. I wish HKers would drag their puppet government into the street and give them the Marie Antioniette treatment.

The British were pussies for giving it “back”.

I don’t blame the President for staying it out of it though, the trade negotiations are more important and words on our part aren’t going to effect anything.

[piasa]

Interesting...this particular reporter in Hong Kong, the gal with the Turkish name Zeynep Tufekci, reportedly had a lot to do with pushing the mask mandates in the US in April 2020...