Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Hobbyists can plant hidden spy chips on motherboards for $200
TechSpot ^ | October 13, 2019, 9:42 AM | Isaiah Mayersen

Posted on 10/17/2019 2:37:01 PM PDT by Zhang Fei

Almost a year to the day after Bloomberg reported that the US government, Apple, Amazon, and others had their servers compromised by China, a security researcher has shown a similar hack can be pulled off with $190 worth of tools and a $2 chip.

Citing six senior national security officials and several higher-ups within Apple and Amazon, Bloomberg claimed that the manufacturing facilities constructing Supermicro motherboards had been infiltrated by a branch of China’s People’s Liberation Army. The PLA was reportedly adding a rice grain-sized chip capable of monitoring and altering communications with the motherboard’s BMC (baseboard management controller). The compromised motherboards had allegedly been sold in the tens of thousands to US customers, who could all, theoretically, be leaking their data to China.

Supermicro, Apple and Amazon all denied claims that they’d discovered the chips vehemently, the NSA said the threat was a false alarm, and the debate ended there. Last December, however, the hack was proven possible by Trammell Hudson, who’d found a spot on the Supermicro motherboard where a tiny chip could replace a small resistor and remain unnoticed. He connected a proof-of-concept chip only slightly larger than the resistor through external wires and completed the hack, concluding that anyone with a fab would be able to do a better job and remain undetected.

Monta Elkins, who’s the “hacker-in-chief” for security firm Foxguard, can do it without the budget. Elkins, who’ll be formally presenting his work at the CS3sthlm security conference this month, was able to gain control over a Cisco ASA 5505 firewall server with a chip lifted from a $2 Digispark Arduino board. He assembled his hack using a $150 hot-air soldering tool and a $40 microscope.

"We think this stuff is so magical, but it’s not really that hard," Elkins told Wired.

(Excerpt) Read more at techspot.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: amazon; apple; china; huawei; kag; maga; trump
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last

1 posted on 10/17/2019 2:37:01 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: central_va; Swordmaker

ping


2 posted on 10/17/2019 2:37:27 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei

If we ever go to war with China they will know our moves before the field-grade officers even get the orders.


3 posted on 10/17/2019 2:40:02 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei

For those non-technical, it requires someone to open the box, de-solder devices and then wire in an additional PCB.
Its probably wired into the interface with the keyboard controller for tracking key strokes.

Its actually easier to send someone a gif in email with embedded software to do the same thing.


4 posted on 10/17/2019 2:43:47 PM PDT by Zathras
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zathras

Could the Chicoms be making the boards with the chips already installed new from factory?

Is such possible?


5 posted on 10/17/2019 2:48:55 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Only God's or our wrath can save the nation. Voting and posting isn't working.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

“Is such possible?”

Beyond ‘possible’ it is ‘likely’.


6 posted on 10/17/2019 3:02:28 PM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Zathras

$100 will buy you a USB cable which has the ability to inject spyware, key log, etc. and nobody would every tell it’s any different than a normal cable without cutting it open or x-ray.


7 posted on 10/17/2019 3:03:19 PM PDT by bigbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

Possible to do, yes. Possible to do without Apple or Amazon noticing? Probably not. Could China drop a spy chip into a motherboard that some random consumer buys on Newegg without getting caught? For a while, but someone would eventually notice. I’m sure the NSA has done similar hack on electronics destines for foreign countries.


8 posted on 10/17/2019 3:03:46 PM PDT by Wayne07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei

Building your own computer with a 500 dollar motherboard includes the 200 dollar spy chip.


9 posted on 10/17/2019 3:04:44 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zathras
Its probably wired into the interface with the keyboard controller for tracking key strokes.

Actually not. The documented attacks rely on using a Baseboard Management Controller which is a special purpose hardware interface that lets system administrators have direct, hardware level access to a motherboard for maintenance purposes. Apparently people in the server business feel that it is worth the convenience factor to put a hardware level back door into their computers.

And needless to say those same people that think a back door to a server is a good idea, also think some low level scheme to bypass and reset the password is a good idea. After all, don't you leave a key taped to the outside of your house next to the back door? It makes it much more convenient for plumbers, cleaners, electricians, etc. who you hire to work on your house to get in and do their work. And if you are really smart, you make your alarm code 1234 and put a post it note with that information with the key.

I never fail to be amazed by engineers who add some convenience feature and then are surprised that it gets exploited. Even Microsoft and Intel create this kind of back door to keep their OEMs and corporate customers happy.

10 posted on 10/17/2019 4:17:07 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Wayne07
System manufacturers already put in a back door for the convenience of their customers. No need for the spy chip from China, its already a "feature".

Look at the fun stuff you can do from a Baseboard Management Controller

11 posted on 10/17/2019 4:20:24 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei

The chip will still stand out like a sore thumb in QUALITY ASSURANCE REVIEW of the product.

Just because this guy can add it to the board does NOT mean the $2 chip can do a damn thing! Being able to place a chip on the motherboard and doing it so it cannot be found are two entirely different things. A video QA scan of that hacked board, something every manufacturer does, would red flag that board immediately. I could spot it with my bare eye as something not designed to be on the board even if they had not put a red circle around it.


12 posted on 10/17/2019 5:33:51 PM PDT by Swordmaker (My pistol self-identifies as an iPad, so you must accept it in gun-free zones, you hoplaphobe bigot!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Wayne07

Ok. Thank you.


13 posted on 10/17/2019 5:38:37 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Only God's or our wrath can save the nation. Voting and posting isn't working.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker

[A video QA scan of that hacked board, something every manufacturer does, would red flag that board immediately. I could spot it with my bare eye as something not designed to be on the board even if they had not put a red circle around it.]


QA people can be bought or coerced. This *is* China, where the Party literally has the power to summarily kill anyone it chooses, and journalists are disappeared for reporting inconvenient facts.


14 posted on 10/17/2019 5:40:39 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei
Keep in mind the Bloomberg article last year was a hoax from a single source who was flogging his company’s hardware/software products designed to supposedly find surreptitiously placed chips on logicboards. . . his company was desperately trying to create a need for their product. No one in the industry, after examining thousands of the accused logic boards and servers even found a single example of a compromised board with a spurious chip on it. Not one.

In this case, we are talking about a seven year old, obsolete, double sided board that has long been replaced by an IC which handles its functions. . . who is going to open up the IC and stick this bulky chip inside it in a modern system?

Hell, we were adding chips with additional function to Commodore 64 motherboards back in the early 1980s using this same technique, just a bit sloppier. This is nothing new or revolutionary!

15 posted on 10/17/2019 5:50:36 PM PDT by Swordmaker (My pistol self-identifies as an iPad, so you must accept it in gun-free zones, you hoplaphobe bigot!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei

Pong


16 posted on 10/17/2019 5:50:41 PM PDT by keving (We the government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker

“something every manufacturer does”

Only for high volume stuff. I have had to fight to get X-ray, clamshells, and boundary scans for every board that I’ve been part of qualifying over the last 20 years.

Due to volumes of 1000 or less a year on things like MRIs, CTs, etc the cost is too high for the business to justify. I work in a regulated industry and later stage testing in a higher level assembly is considered acceptable - though I have been able to show time and time again that it does not provide anywhere near full test coverage.


17 posted on 10/17/2019 5:53:03 PM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary that good men do nothing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: reed13k

Forgot to say ... it’s still difficult if they intend to use the PCB as the circuit since the board has to be relaid out to accommodate he extra chip...unless they are using manual solders and wire jumpers with means that it becomes exceptionally easy to spot....and also less reliable. Also means more people are involved and it’s not a pick and place machine operation.


18 posted on 10/17/2019 5:55:52 PM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary that good men do nothing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Zhang Fei
QA people can be bought or coerced. This *is* China, where the Party literally has the power to summarily kill anyone it chooses, and journalists are disappeared for reporting inconvenient facts.

QA is done not just by the manufacturer/assembler, nut also by the designer/customers as well. As I wrote on the original thread when Bloomberg’s article came out with its accusation about a specific line of server logicboards imported and sold by a California company, they had designed and engineered them from scratch, and every board was QA’d in California on arrival to their reference boards, and tested completely before shipping to the companies that made servers. Those companies also did QA checks. Amazon, through its AWS due diligence, was a customer of one of the server makers as was Apple, and they BOTH did QA on them. In fact, Amazon wound up BUYING both companies! They stated then that there was no way a spurious chip could have been snuck onto the motherboards and been overlooked by their QA. The NSA looked into these reports and found nothing.

Bloomberg itself did NOT publish any photos of an in situ chip on a motherboard, instead accepted their source’s word. They cited "experts" saying "if this was done, here’s how it could be done" quotations. . . But no one was willing to say it was done.

19 posted on 10/17/2019 6:04:13 PM PDT by Swordmaker (My pistol self-identifies as an iPad, so you must accept it in gun-free zones, you hoplaphobe bigot!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker
Hell, we were adding chips with additional function to Commodore 64 motherboards back in the early 1980s using this same technique, just a bit sloppier. This is nothing new or revolutionary!

Everything is so tiny now, it was so much easier in the old days. I modified my Apple II in 1979, replacing the ROM sockets with EPROM sockets with piggybacked chips within the sockets because the pinouts were different, and reprogrammed EPROMs with my own subroutines and boot programs. Instant on, no boot disk necessary. I can't imagine modifying modern motherboards, my eyes aren't so good now.

20 posted on 10/17/2019 6:10:10 PM PDT by roadcat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson