Posted on 10/01/2019 10:17:20 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
Hundreds of students, alumni and staff have held a sit-in denouncing police violence outside the school of a Hong Kong teenager who was shot in the chest by police on Tuesday.
Tsang Chi-kin, 18, was taken to hospital in a critical condition after the shooting , the first time live ammunition was used on protesters in the city, representing a major escalation of force by authorities.
Signs at Wednesday’s protest included one saying “Students without violence” and others accusing Hong Kong police of “pre-meditated murder”. Most of those gathered wore face masks to shield their identity because of concerns about official retaliation. Secondary schools in Hong Kong were also planning a mass class boycott in response to the shooting.
Other protesters gathered on Wednesday at a courtroom West Kowloon, where 96 people arrested at the weekend were expected to be charged with rioting. It will be the largest mass hearing in the city since the handover from British colonial rule, according to writer and activist Kong Tsung-gan.
A previous court hearing in July for 44 people arrested during protests that month sparked fresh stand-offs with police outside the courtroom.
The lobby of the courtroom was crammed with relatives and supporters lining up for tickets, many also wearing face masks to shield their identity. The courtroom has only 100 spaces, far too few for the gathering crowds.
Twenty four opposition lawmakers strongly condemned police for “unnecessarily escalating the use of force”, in a joint statement. “The policeman’s close-range shooting seems to be an attack rather than self-defence.” it said.
Video footage of the incident showed the officer run towards the group with his pistol drawn, even though he was also armed with pepper spray and a gun that fires non-lethal beanbag rounds.
(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...
This is getting real.
God bless and protect the people of Hong Kong.
There is a considerable element of snowflakery in these protests. The “Students” want to vent unidentifiable angst this is not so much a revolution so much as a temper tantrum.
They are actually making the PRC look good as the government in Beijing has been extremely patient with this crap.
Are there social issues in HK? You bet. Could the government do a better job of not being run by property cartels and HSBC? You bet. But these protesters have not offered even one constructive piece of advice or proposed one remedy for the issues they are upset with. I am not even sure what they are upset about anymore.
It is not enough to just be angry. It is not enough to just pull down the old. Change is not always good. They are going to get change, change for the worse.
What do they expect is going to happen if they throw bottles and Molotov cocktails at the police? Tear gas doesn’t work because many of the protesters are wearing painters mask and goggles that filter it out.
Do they really think they can attack the police and people on the sidewalk and nobody is going to respond?
Hong Kong is my home town. I am ashamed of what it has become
Nonsense.
[Are there social issues in HK? You bet. Could the government do a better job of not being run by property cartels and HSBC? You bet. But these protesters have not offered even one constructive piece of advice or proposed one remedy for the issues they are upset with. I am not even sure what they are upset about anymore.]
That’s what these protests are about - freedom. When the Patriots revolted against the Crown, they did not present detailed position papers to Parliament. They said no taxation without representation. Successful armed revolt is clearly beyond the capabilities of these protestors.
But they have shown that they’re quite capable of facing up to a paid force backed up by the full might of the Chinese state. That’s pretty gutsy. When the police get hurt, they have their medical bills paid and potential disability pensions. When these protestors get hurt, they’re on their own.
Having spent a week on Hong Kong, I would make three observations:
1. What the residents want or appear to desire is total independence...making their own choices, running their own government, etc. Because of the UK hundred years and the advanced state of the area, it’s probably possible (except the Chinese government does’t agree).
2. HK is one of the few places I’ve ever been that respect of the police is extremely high. I witnessed a car accident one day, and the two drivers are getting extremely violent and argumentative....then the two female cops show up, and one raises a hand...the two drivers stop the argument and go into hyper quiet mode. I was amazed at the lightning fast speed this occurred. There was no damage really over either car (bumper to bumper situation). In 90 seconds, the cop dismisses both guys and they take off real quick.
3. I’ve watched this video of the teenager, and he was inciting the cop to the 9th degree to fire. It’s not logical behavior to get that close and physically intimidating the cop while he holds the gun. Maybe the kid had everything pumping, but it was a purely stupid move on his part.
[I’ve watched this video of the teenager, and he was inciting the cop to the 9th degree to fire.]
It is also a demonstration where there were NOT real bullets, in the guns.
For months, and months, and months.
This certainly changes things, in that way.
After seeing and hearing some of their appeals to U.S. independence—especially our National Anthem—I felt really sympathetic and sad for them. Wish we could help.
I watched the video and they attacked a police officer with things like wrenches, hammers, and pipes. It was after this that one of them was shot. I hate communism but you can’t attack police and then be outraged that they use lethal force.
I also don’t see how the protests are going to accomplish anything. Unless they are willing to start an armed revolution, but they probably do not have any real weapons and even then I don’t see it working out unless they were able to stir up unrest in the rest of the country. China has always been ruled by an authoritarian government. I don’t see the mainland going for it. We have a hard enough time keeping America from sliding into that kind of government.
I was about to refute every point you made, even every sentence of your post, when I realized I’m already familiar with your pro-communist China stance from an earlier exchange, when you falsely claimed that “many of the protester were paid”, and that your niece “made $1800 Hong Kong dollars and got a free lunch to attend.”
Clearly your post #4 is intended to get the message of the CCP out amid almost universal condemnation of the HK police; and your feigned ignorance of the five clear demands of the protesters while claiming HK is your hometown only serves to give your position away.
For others reading about the news of the HK protests, be aware that:
- The Hong Kong police is heavily infiltrated by mainland riot police and other undesirable elements recruited by the CCP so that they only do the CCP’s biddings. As a result, the HK police no longer have to follow any law and are not even under the control of HK’s puppet chief anymore.
- Increasing police brutality is what is fueling the angry sentiments of the protesters, even more than any of the other demands for freedom. The CCP’s strategy to control the crowds had backfired.
- Many of the violent acts are actually perpetrated by the police. It is well-known that they disguise themselves and mix in with the protesters to incite violence and commit violent acts in order to smear the protesters. I’ve seen a photo of someone lighting a firebomb wearing a helmet similar to what the police use with an object that looks like a firearm clearly visible at his waist (yes, someone already did all the analyses). The CCP has a history of throwing firebombs.
- Only the CCP has the incentive to escalate the violence giving them the excuse to further curtail freedom and deploy more lethal weapons against the demonstrators, to the point live ammunition is being used in order to deter people from going in the streets.
- Wherever the CCP operates, one can expect to find without fail deceptions, lies, distortions, dirty tricks, gang violence, police brutality, unspeakable evil, and more.
I am the farthest thing from a communist. Are you a Falun Gong missionary? Or are you a supporter of Long Hair Leung advocating for a Trotskyite rather than Maoist Hong Kong? You are a fool whatever else you are calling me a Communist. Yeah, I can throw around ad hominem attacks too. So lay off with the insults.
I was not lying when I said my niece was paid. Falun Gong was paying people to go at the start of the protest. At the beginning of this protest, more than one group was doing that. I don’t think they are doing it now as the situation has spiraled out of control. The slogan used a couple of weeks ago by the protesters to basically form flash mobs and then melt away using the MTR and public transit was “Be the water” is right out of Falun Gong literature. According to my wife they use that term in their tai-Chi like exercise programs. It may be a coincidence but it may not be.
It is accurate to say that the PRC has been very patient with these protests. It does not make me a Chinese spy to point this out.
It is also accurate to say that the way this movement has been overtaken by violence is a clear sign that it isn’t going to end well. If this keeps up the freedoms that are enjoyed by Hong Kong will all be lost. You don’t have to be Beijing’s puppet to see that is the case.
Like it or not, Hong Kong is part of China and the people there need to realize they must exist under Chinese law. China will never give them independence. If the PRC lets HK go then Tibet and inner Mongolia stand up and ask, “Why not us? After all, we WERE independent countries!” Taiwan raises its hand and asks for formal recognition of sovereignty. The Western Muslim provinces then demand their own private Islamic slums. Macao independence anybody? What if 160 million Cantonese speakers stand up and say, “We don’t even speak the same language?” Pointing these things out does not make me a pro-China spy or a Communist. It makes me someone who understands the fear of the government in Beijing. If they let Hong Kong go they are afraid the whole nation of China falls apart. Saying this does not make a Chinese spy.
The PRC is not going to let HK become independent without an actual revolution and unlike the American Revolution where the colonist could use the long supply lines the British had to contend with so that George Washington could use the vast rural areas to simply win by not losing; Hong Kong would certainly lose. There is no possible way Hong Kong could fight a revolution against China and win. Watch a film about the Soviet response to an independence movement in Cezchelovakia in 1958. The same thing will eventually happen in Hong Kong if this keeps up. Saying that does not make me either a liar or a Pro-China spy. Agitating for independence is a sure way to get a shooting war and that is a war the people of Hong Kong would lose. That’s just how it is. Therefore, that agitation should stop. Saying this does not make me a Chinese spy or a communist.
Neither does saying that people in Hong Kong already have more freedom than other places in China make me a pro-China spy. It is simply true. I have lived in both places. Hong Kong is freer than the rest of the PRC.
The only hope for a better China is to change it from the inside or to wait for it to inevitably to collapse like the Societ Union. That day will come. Wait for it. Communist governments will always collapse. The system is unsustainable. Hong Kong needs to become an example to the rest of China. Having a bunch of students rioting and advocating for mob rule accomplishes nothing. It just makes it worse. Saying this does not make me a Chinese spy.
More of the blame should be laid at the feet of the Hong Kong police who tolerated a certain amount of corruption in the form of the triads operating in the rural areas. These petty-gangsters controlled a lot of the rural land and made huge fortunes doing it. A lot of the non-triad members in Hong Kong resent the tolerance shown to these mobsters masquerading as family historical preservation societies. Saying this does not make me a Chinese spy or a communist.
A large part of the reason for these protest -now riots - is the government’s fault and dates from the colonial mindset of the higher level HK officials who view, in my experience, the ordinary people with a palpable amount of condescension. They thought that protest would die down if they just let them play out. The Mandarins are obviously trying to downplay the issues and placate Beijing. They want to please everyone and come across as wishy-washy, platitude mumbling hypocrites. Instead, their lack of a clear coherent response emboldened the violent sectors of the protest and those have taken over the movement. Saying that does not make me a Chinese spy, communist or advocate of the HK government. Indeed, it makes me the exact opposite. I am quite critical of the HK government.
A huge amount of the fault for the issues racking the HK government should also be laid at the feet of the UK government who allowed the “Functional Consituiences” into the Hong Kong Basic Law. Margret Thatcher did a lot of good for Britain. But the Basic Law in Hong Kong is a travesty and its flaws are in large measure, something the Tory government, under Thatcher in the UK could have prevented. I have been saying this about Functional Constituencies since 1997 it does not make me a Chinese spy or a communist It is simply true.
I’ve forgotten the number but about half the Legco (The “Congress” or city council for those who don’t know the term.)are elected not from districts representing people but by various trades and industries. There are sitting LegCo members whose constituency are banks like HSBC, BEA and Standard Chartered. Other members represent not people but industries like construction companies, travel agents, airlines, restaurants, and hotels. Is it any wonder that the government is more concerned about Li Kai Shing and David Lee than ordinary people? The large corporations and banks in HK already work with the PRC and have the money to grease the communist palms. Make no mistake, big business and Chinese Communist get along very well. The grocery stores in HK openly collude with each other to keep the price of the food high. The property cartels openly collude with the government to keep the price of housing sky high. These activities are possible because of the Functional Constituencies make good and sure that there are no anti-monopoly laws, very few consumer protection laws, and no penalties for insider trading or stock market and consumer price manipulation. If these students want to make HK a more democratic place they should be advocating to abolish the Functional Constituencies. directly electing Carrie Lam would change a thing. Saying this does not make me either a liar or a Chinese spy. Neither does it make me a liar since when I lived in Hong Kong I was eligible to vote not just for the district representative but in the educational constituency. I refused the second vote for the education sector Legco member.
Having said that Carrie Lam could have, should have, made this an issue as should the three Hong Kong CE’s before her. They haven’t. Saying this does not make me either a liar or a Chinese spy. It makes me someone who wants to clean up the HK government.
Chinese communist propaganda is exactly what you are spewing. You may be able to fool a lot of people but not those who are interested enough to follow the events even superficially.
There is no point in debating a communist or a communist operative, take your pick. But it is important to set the record straight on a few points.
I only read a few paragraphs of your twisted tirade and could see you’re still trying to salvage your shameless lie about protesters being paid. Of course, that is the only thing you know given the CCP’s long tradition of paying local people to welcome CCP leaders when they visit foreign countries; paying people to hold counter-rallies against pro-HK rallies worldwide; paying people to stage protests against their enemies, mostly businesses; paying thugs to disrupt and attack Falun Gong display booths and lately, even members of the HK Legislature who don’t support the CCP.
And there are video proofs of some of the above showing the operatives distributing money right after the events.
The slogan ‘Be like water’ actually comes from the teachings of the famous ancient Chinese philosopher Lao Tze. I don’t practice Falun Gong and I don’t believe it has a big following in HK, but your attack of Falun Gong proves you’re a good soldier toeing the CCP line.
Hong Kong independence is NOT what the protesters are after, but the CCP likes to characterize it that way to prevent people in the mainland from sympathizing with the movement. Another proof of your communist core.
I don’t know what more lies you have in your post, hope the above is enough information for people to least question everything you’d written.
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