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To: romanesq
21st century and they still can’t replicate or explain The Shroud notwithstanding the latest scientific evidence brought forth.

That thing gets replicated all the time. But there will always be some "eminent scientist" willing to tell you what you want to hear because there is money in doing so.

37 posted on 07/21/2019 8:23:15 AM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: Poison Pill; romanesq
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not “Eureka” but “Hmmm...that’s funny...” —Isaac Asimov (1920–1992)


Romanesq: "...they still can’t replicate or explain The Shroud notwithstanding the latest scientific evidence brought forth.."

Poison Pill: That thing gets replicated all the time

Poison Pill, with all due respect, re-read what romanesq wrote. It was not that artists' renditions, photos and prints have not been made --- there have been probably tens of thousands of copies, I have one on my fridge --- but the point is that the Shroud (itself) has not been replicated: a length of linen cloth with the Shroud's distinctive physical and chemical characteristics.

There is no sizing in the cloth, there are no underdrawings, no brush-strokes, and the image itself has more the characteristics of a scorch, not penetrating the cloth past 2 microfibers depth.

Here's where the Isaac Asimov axiom comes in. The really significant scientific discoveries are not ones that were anticipated or expected. "Hmm. That's funny..."

The image itself is almost invisible to the naked eye (strange that money-grubbing "marketers" and "forgers" wouldn't do better and use some primitive permanent magic marker on the main points, eh?) and only becomes quite visible with a photographic negative.

Further, the picture only really jumps out at you when you analyze the depth-perception aspects, whereby the distance from the burial sheet to the corpse varies slightly based on the concavities and convexities, the "topography" of the body.

The rational mind itself tells you that there's something here you didn't foresee, and something behind it that you cannot see. That's all. It leads you to an honest agnosticism.

Then you go from "What?" to "Why?" and finally to "Who?"

And the honest empirical inquirer is drawn from "Eureka" to "That's funny" to...consider this as a hypothesis ... "OMG".

45 posted on 07/21/2019 9:03:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.")
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To: Poison Pill
That thing gets replicated all the time. But there will always be some "eminent scientist" willing to tell you what you want to hear because there is money in doing so.

As if there's no money to be made trashing Christianity and attempting to destroy faith.

You're so full of shit it staggers the human mind.

61 posted on 07/21/2019 10:48:35 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change with out notice.)
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To: Poison Pill
That thing gets replicated all the time. But there will always be some "eminent scientist" willing to tell you what you want to hear because there is money in doing so.

No, Pill, it doesn’t. There are skeptics who do not grasp what is required to “replicate” the shroud who do things like dust cloth with Iron Oxide powders, or use photographic techiniques with a silver solutions with fixatives they claim were available in the 14th Century based on the now falsified 1988 Carbon 14 test such as urine. However, these pre-suppose these Iron Oxides and Silver solutions can actually be still showing an image on the Shroud 700 years after the image was made by their purported methodology. However, none of their methods EVER fulfill even a rudimentary capability of re-creating the image on the Shroud of Turin satisfying all of the criteria, but most importantly, NOT ANY OF THEIR CRITICAL CHEMICALS EXIST ON THE SHROUD IN THE IMAGE AREAS IN SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES (IF THEY ARE THERE AT ALL) TO RISE TO THE LEVEL OF VISIBILITY. Most are not even there, such as silver oxide or even Iron Oxide, which exists only in the area of the blood stains. . . And then it is not the type used in pigments, but a type that relates to blood remnants, certainly not a ground up, pigment type Iron Oxide which would stand out like a sore thumb on the X-Ray microspectrometry and Raman Spectrometry that has been done on the Shroud. Not a single one of these pathetic attempts to replicate the Shroud has ever come close to doing so. Your sampling making a declaration they have done so “all the time” is ludicrous.

The scientists who are working on the Shroud are scientists who are working in their fields of expertise, Pill. They know what they are talking about. On the other hand, on the skeptics side, they have a geologist and a guy who is a failed stage magician with a degree in English Literature. . . challenging experts, many of them who are world class in their fields. One of those, Dr. David Cameron, who has a double doctorate in the areas studying blood and blood derivatives, who examined the blood stains on the Shroud and tested them finding them to be human blood derivatives and very old human haemoglobin derivatives, was told by one of these skeptic “experts” that he was “mistaking Iron Oxide, Egg Albumin, and Vermilion paint (Mercury Sulfide)” for real blood, despite all the real scientific tests he had done including DNA, Primate and Human Antigen tests, Raman Spectroscopy (No Mercury sulfide [HgS] or inorganic Iron Oxide [FE2O3] except accidental environmental contamination), and a host of other very specific blood tests. Yet these so-called skeptical “experts” claimed they knew the blood stains were paint because a microscopist Walter C. McCrone had said so because he saw the paint in his optical microscope. . . and had published it in his non-peer-reviewed magazine The Microscopist, where he claimed the Shroud was a painting. He even claimed he could tell the “dilution of the Tempera Paints used to create it” something that is not possible to do under a microscope. The problem is that there are no pigments of any kind found on the Shroud, down to the scanning electron microscopic level.

These replica shrouds created by these skeptics are rife with pigments, silver oxides, etc, that light up every test applied to them. They FAIL the tests for image media. Thus, the Shroud has not been duplicated at all. The modality of image creation has NOT been duplicated.

Please tell us how “money is made” in telling anyone what you claim? Most of the people involved are self-funded, contrary to your claims.

74 posted on 07/21/2019 2:11:14 PM PDT by Swordmaker (My pistol self-identifies as an iPad, so you must accept it in gun-free zones, you hoplaphobe bigot!)
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To: Poison Pill; romanesq

“That thing gets replicated all the time.”

The image is something like a scorch mark on the surface of the fibers. It’s not paint. No one has figured out how the image was made. I’ve never heard of a single successful effort to duplicate the it.

Since you have, please tell us what museum or art gallery has one of these replications so that we can find out how they did it.


96 posted on 07/21/2019 9:27:18 PM PDT by Pelham (Secure Voter ID. Mexico has it, because unlike us they take voting seriously)
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