[Diana in Wisconsin]

Well, we KNEW that the Dems were gunning for us. Be vigilant and liquidate, hide, bury your assets when you can! ;)

Beau inherited some $ from his Mom (split 5 ways with his siblings; not much) when she passed. I guess letting that GROW until he needs it later in life may not be an option any longer if this bill isn't killed.

Do any FReepers HAVE Annuities? Experiences?

[G Larry]

Annuities?

NEVER!

An expensive way to get a poor return.

[COBOL2Java]

Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement (SECURE) Act

Every RAT proposal is the exact opposite of what the name implies.

Example: "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act"

[Beagle8U]

How about Beagle8u’s plan for fixing retirement plans?

In MY plan hourly workers would pay NO income tax on overtime hours, with the option to put the extra earnings in a Roth IRA.

Work a extra 8 hours tax free and get an extra 8 hours pay on your paycheck, and the 4 hours of 1 1/2 time pay goes in your Roth IRA, again, tax free!

That would benefit the guys that work their @$$es off and give them retirement money when they are older.

[NEMDF]

When my dad passed away (22 years ago now), we 5 siblings each got a little from his IRA, and I think we had to take it in 5 years or less (not lifetime, not 10 years). Since it was fully taxable, the main goal was to spread out the tax burden over some time period.

Unless a huge amount of money, I would probably try to get the funds out in a somewhat shorter period of time. The main reason for this (having worked in financial services for 43 years and seeing what commonly happens), is that issues like this become so much more complicated over time. If one of the original beneficiaries dies, not having taken out his/her share, then what happens? Does it end up going to his/her spouse? Kids? Back to the other siblings? By the time some of these situations are unwound, people can spend thousands of dollars on attorneys to “help” them track it down and obtain the actual inheritance distribution.

I do have 2 annuities. One is a very small ROTH IRA, and the other is an IRA, which is about 30% of my retirement savings. Both are variable annuities. The larger one was purchased about 20 years ago, as a rollover from an employer’s retirement plan. The issuing company was offering a “bonus” of (IIRC) 10% they would add to the account during a short time period window, and that was very attractive to me at that time. It has more than doubled in value over the years, and I have added to it a little at a time, when I both had some cash and could avail myself of additional deductible IRA contributions.

One advantage of annuities, is that they offer a guaranteed rate at which the funds can be converted to monthly income at the elected maturity date. I don’t know whether the mortality tables have changed since I got my larger annuity, but they would have been based on mortality assumption from a past time (so, the actuarial calculations would have been based on possibly shorter life expectancies than are predicted now, hence larger payout per $1 of annuity value at maturity).

Another good option (IMO) for PART of one’s retirement savings, to take at retirement or when needed, is a single premium immediate annuity. While this may not offer the best potential growth or returns, it is a way to KNOW that a certain guaranteed income will be coming over one’s remaining lifetime (and can be guaranteed for 10 or 20 years, etc.).

I am also of the school of thought, to not postpone taking social security benefits until “full retirement age” or later. If you DIE before starting benefits, you get ZERO. Let’s say you start taking at age 65, and it is a little less than you would get at 66.67 or 70. But, you will have gotten the benefits for months, if not years, instead of zero dollars while waiting. My strategy (which is not very sophisticated, admittedly), is to use the SS money FIRST, then supplement, if needed, with my personal savings/annuities/etc.

That provides the best opportunity to leave some of MY money (hard-earned!!) to my kids and grandchildren. If I were to start using my money and postponing SS, then die at 70 or before, that money is GONE, and my kids are not going to get anything from my SS.

Just a few thoughts....

[goodnesswins]

All I know is my hub has said...NEVER get an Annuity!! If something happens to him.

[FewsOrange]

---

“Annuities are often marketed as tax-deferred savings vehicles.

But, O’Brien said, “your 401(k) is already a tax-deferred vehicle. It kills me when we see an annuity in a tax-deferred IRA because you doubled up.” “

---

Annuities inside 401ks do not make sense.

[sonrise57]

I inherited a 36,000 IRA from my Mom and Dad. I bought an Annuity with it that pays a guaranteed 1300 a year for life. If I live to 85 they win. If I live to 95 I win. I wonder if I will have to liquidate that annuity?

[headstamp 2]

[[the Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement (SECURE) Act]]

In other words, it does the opposite.

[rockrr]

My parents adopted a “Die broke” retirement philosophy. It’s predicated on spending down your assets such that you leave as little estate as possible when you exit.

We kids saw to it that they were comfortable and protected.

My inheritance (such as it was) came in the form of an annuity. I know that it is there but there isn’t much that I can do with it. It doesn’t pay enough in dividends to do much more than go out to dinner once a quarter.

I regard it like a Christmas Club account - eventually I will cash it out as I draw down my own assets. At least I know that it never loses value.

[M Kehoe]

Too late.

I be retired.

Nancy and her girls can come make me a sammich. And that racist senator from HI, Mazie can get me a cold beer.

5.56mm

[GreenHornet]

"Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement"

The first half of that title is accurate.

[glorgau]

An IRA is for personal retirement. Leaving it as an inheritance should be treated the same as leaving cash - no reason why preferential tax treatment should extend beyond the grave.

[Pecos]

Point one: The beginning part of the acronynm "Setting up.." seems like a serious tongue in cheek reference to the Dems setting up the average person to fail so they can ride in on their not-so-white horses and "save" everyone. (setting that aside),

Point two - annuities: I'm just about to kick off my retirement, so I've been looking at the whole range of investment options. As for me and my house, we will not be using any annuities. Here's the deal. All annuities have two values at any point in time, their selling price and their Net Asset Value (NAV). You receive the selling price at the time of the annuity's maturity date. If that is less than the NAV, too bad, that's all you get. So, you have to guess the state of the market 5 or 7 years from now. My crystal ball isn't that clear. So, we are going a different route.

Point three - the fixed income bond route: I'm going to be putting about half of my total IRA accounts into a collection of corporate and municipal bonds (investment grade only) that will provide semi-annual dividends that can be pulled out as taxable income, or plowed back into the account to grow the principal. My broker and I are selecting a group of bonds with maturity dates ranging from 2022 to 2034; I will replace the nearest ones with another of similar characteristics as they mature, and keep rolling them over in that order. The other half of my IRAs will be used for more aggressive/active trading in equities, and will be where my RMDs come from.

Point four - YMMV.

[donozark]

Suze Orman has bad mouthed annuities for years now. Used to be a regular on CNBC. Me? I purchased an annuity back in the 80s. Cashed in a few months back. Disappointed in return. No where near what I thought it would pay. And a very reputable company. NY Life.

[bert]

House bill......

The House is powerless to do any thing but screw around trying to be relevant. No discussion is necessary of the House balderdash

[DoughtyOne]

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[Labyrinthos]

Another change that American workers should be wary of, according to consumer advocates, is adding annuities — complex financial tools offered by insurance companies — to 401(k) plans.

While the Rats claim they are for the little people and working stiffs, this provision pumps billions of dollars into the hands of the greedy insurance companies and so-called financial planners. Annuities are inappropriate for 99% of investors because of their high costs, expenses, fees, commissions, lack of liquidity, and surrender charges. And in my opinion any insurance agent, financial adviser, or employer who peddles tax deferred annuities for use in a tax deferred retirement account, ought to go to prison for fraud.

[yldstrk]

Don’t buy annuities or time shares, the contract language always favors the sellers and screws you.

[GailA]

We tied everything up in Marital Trusts, and survivor Trust funds. Not that we have a fortune, but want to keep and grow what is ours. Hubby is already drawing out of his IRA, I’ve got 2 more years before I do. Neither are big. My Annuities are decent to leave a small nest egg for the one who survives, and pass on to the kids, those are specific marked.

House and Cars + household goods are up to the kids to divvy up.

[Amendment10]

Thank you for referencing that article Diana in Wisconsin. Please note that the following critique is directed at the article and not at you.

"The House passed the Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement (SECURE) Act of 2019 on May 23."

FR: Never Accept the Premise of Your Opponent’s Argument

Patriots are reminded that the states have never expressly constitutionally delegated to the feds the specific power to make such a law, the corrupt, post-17th Amendment ratification feds once again trying to exploit low-information voters by stealing state powers to make a social spending law to win their votes imo.

In fact, the congressional record shows that Rep. John Bingham, a constitutional lawmaker, had clarified that the Founding States had left the care of the people to the states, not the feds.

”... the care of the property, the liberty, and the life of the citizen, under the solemn sanction of an oath imposed by your Federal Constitution, is in the States, and not in the Federal Government [emphases added].” —Rep. John Bingham, Congressional Globe, 1866. (See about middle of 3rd column.)

Justice Brandeis had put it this way about unique state powers to serve the people.

"It is one of the happy incidents of the federal system that a single courageous State may, if its citizens choose [emphasis added], serve as a laboratory; and try novel social and economic experiments without risk to the rest of the country.” — Justice Brandeis, Laboratories of democracy.

Note that constitutional limits on states as laboratories of democracy is that states cannot establish privileged / protected classes or abridge constitutionally enumerated rights, and must maintain a constitutionally guaranteed republican form of government.

Also consider that the last of the state sovereignty-respecting Supreme Court majority justices had put it this way about the fed's limited powers.

”From the accepted doctrine that the United States is a government of delegated powers, it follows that those not expressly granted, or reasonably to be implied from such as are conferred, are reserved to the states, or to the people. To forestall any suggestion to the contrary, the Tenth Amendment was adopted. The same proposition, otherwise stated, is that powers not granted are prohibited [emphasis added].” —United States v. Butler, 1936.

H O W E V E R…

Note that the individual states cannot fully experiment with the social spending programs that a state's legal majority citizen voters want, as the Founding States had intended, because federal career lawmakers keep stealing state revenues by means of unconstitutional federal taxes.

"Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States."—Justice John Marshall, Gibbons v. Ogden, 1824.



In fact, using inappropriate words like "concept" and "implicit" here is what was left of 10th Amendment-protected state sovereignty after FDR’s state sovereignty-ignoring majority justices got finished with it in Wickard v. Filburn, FDR's justices scandalously deciding that case in Congress's favor imo.

• "10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

• "In discussion and decision, the point of reference, instead of being what was "necessary and proper" to the exercise by Congress of its granted power, was often some concept [???] of sovereignty thought to be implicit [??? emphases added] in the status of statehood." —Wickard v. Filburn, 1942

The remedy for the unconstitutionally big federal government on our backs…

Patriots need to elect a new patriot Congress in the 2020 elections that will not only promise to support PDJT's vision for MAGA, but will also promise to surrender state powers that the feds have stolen from the states back to the states.

And to make such changes permanent, patriots also need to support PDJT in leading the states to repeal the 16th and ill-conceived 17th Amendments.

Remember in November 2020!

MAGA! Not Democratic MADA (Make America Dead Again)

• "The “Holy Grail” of organized crime is to control government power to tax." —me

• "The constitutionally undefined political parties are basically rival, corrupt voter unions, “union dues” paid by means of unconstitutional federal taxes.” —me

• "The smart crooks long ago figured out that getting themselves elected to federal office to make unconstitutional tax laws to fill their pockets is a much easier way to make a living than robbing banks." —me

• "Federal career lawmakers probably laugh all the way to the bank to deposit bribes for putting loopholes for the rich and corporations in tax appropriations laws, Congress actually not having the express constitutional authority to make most appropriations laws where domestic policy is concerned. Such laws are based on stolen state powers and uniquely associated stolen state revenues." —me