Posted on 06/08/2019 11:11:46 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
In recent years, the United States has struggled to persuade the Philippine government and the country’s citizens it is serious about honoring its commitments under the 1951 U.S.-Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT). China has been feeding this growing mistrust, hoping to drive a wedge between the two long-standing allies to the point one or both will move to terminate the treaty.
Twenty-seven years ago, the stars and stripes were hauled down for the final time at Naval Base Subic Bay, Republic of the Philippines, fulfilling the U.S. obligations to withdraw all military forces and vacate all bases after the Philippine Senate rejected a new military-bases agreement in September 1991. This ended 94 years of U.S.-military basing arrangements in the Philippines. At the time there was no peer competitor in the western Pacific, and then-Pacific Commander Admiral Charles Larson announced a new Pacific and Indian Ocean regional strategy of “places not bases,” which remains the strategy today. In 1998, a new visiting forces agreement was finally signed, allowing U.S. military personnel and ship visits to the Philippines. In 2014, the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) was signed.
Sadly it will take the horrible deaths of many young sailors before today’s “battleship admirals” come to understand that in the modern technological era, capital surface ships, including the super carriers are floating coffins
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Today’s admirals working hard on PC, Diversity & Women’s Advancement Issues to ensure that even subs become death traps
Allendale’s post sounds familiar. It’s common of the “Zoomies,” the Air Force, presently serving, or retired, to depict the Navy in that light. As far back as WW2, Air Force generals were saying, “when you’ve got a great Air Force, why even have a Navy?” Their planes and pilots being so much more superior to Naval Aviation.
Makes you wonder, if Allendale is a “zoomie.”
I don’t judge folks for not having a profile. He has none, so I don’t know his background, but history and political/military strategy are clearly not his strong points. I guess I will accept your theory rather than call him out as a coward. But if someone wants to be a coward, at least don’t try to project that on other great institutions of liberty.
I only said what I did, because I’ve seen it before on FR. Anti-Navy bias from the Air Force. I’ve got a nephew in the Air Force, who is a high ranking officer, whe says about the same thing all the time. The fact that I am retired Navy might have something to do with it. Ha.
And, no, my nephew is not a coward. And probably neither Allendale, like you said, without a profile, we don’t know.
“Their time has passed. “
Utter nonsense.
25 centavos beer and 10 centavos jitney rides what's was not to love? 63,64,65.
Rivalry between services is normal. There is both rivalry in pride which leads to joking, and rivalry over roles, mission, and funding.
The Air Force, being the youngest service, has a history of being bragish about being able to handle all the worlds problems with its latest fighter or nuclear bomber. All the while enjoying the worlds best housing, o club, and golf courses, while the navy spends its budget on ships and its sailors live in wwII housing. As a sailor you know this this from experience.
Only since about 2001, in the wake of 911, has the Air Force begun to learn what it means to ‘deploy’ where the commissary, exchange, and golf course of the Air Force base are not to be found. Good for them that they get that experience.
The problem I had with Allendale is that like so many, he complains about a threat that he is not personally facing ( ships standing in harms way) and pretends his position is defendable but offers no alternative solutions in a way that could be debated.
Despite the inter-service rivalry, even an Air Force person with any education at all knows some military history, and that there would have been no D-Day, no battle of midway, no Jimmy Doolittle raids, without capitol ships sailing into harms way.
Best regards to you and your nephew. Thanks for your service.
“There would have been no D-Day, no battle of midway, no Jimmy Doolittle raids, without capitol ships sailing into harms way.”
>Certainly true, there would have been no victory over Hitler (in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France, and most of Germany) and Japan, without the Navy, as the Army was carried to Europe and the islands of the Pacific on the back of the Navy.
Without the Navy first winning control over the sea, especially in the Pacific, McArthur’s Army couldn’t have done what they did in the islands.
A simple glance at a globe, shows the importance of a Navy, most of it covered with water. The Navy has been, and always will be, America’s first line of defense.
>>25 centavos beer and 10 centavos jitney rides what’s was not to love? 63,64,65.<<
Princeton was docked there late 61 and early 62. Made 2 trips to Hong Kong and 2 trips to Vietnam. The rest of the time was 25 centavo beer and 10 centavo jitney rides.
Remember the frozen San Miguel beer at the marketplace? Or Christmas Day swimming in 96 degree weather?
Those were the days, not a care in the world, see the world for free and get paid for the privilege.
However, Philippine Secretary of National Defense Delphin Lorenzana recently said, “the [mutual defense] treaty needed to be reexamined to clear ambiguities that could cause chaos and confusion during a crisis.” He cited China’s aggressive seizure in the mid-1990s of a Philippine-claimed reef, saying, “The U.S. did not stop it.”
Three years after we'd been shown the door? Too damn bad. That is not, in my opinion, a grievance, it's just deserts to a government that was quite openly hostile at the time.
There is another very touchy issue involved herein, and it was one that plagued the Subic refits throughout their existence: U.S. workers would lose those jobs, and the unions were (in this case justifiably) unhappy about Filipino crane operators, for example, getting paid half or less of their U.S. counterparts. Great deal from the Navy's point of view, not so much for America First. We're angry when Silicon Valley outsources overseas for exactly that reason.
As an ex-West Coast sailor I spent many happy liberties in, er, in the Christian Science Reading Room at the corner of Magsaysay and Rizal, although I heard there were other activities going on in Olongapo but naturally never, uh, partook. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. The Filipinos are awesome, their government not so much, and their current geopolitical challenges are to a great degree their business by their desire and not ours because it would be convenient. I could be convinced otherwise but they're going to have to do the convincing, not somebody in the Pentagon.
Genital Warts ......???????
Why should we go back to Subic? And why should we trust the Philippine government?
“Consumables are now being issued in the Boatswain’s Locker.”
That phrase over the 1MC prompted a buddy to say he was going ashore to purchase some, uh, consumables.
DLG-34 was my home from 67-70.
Wouldn’t take a million dollars to do it again; wouldn’t take a million dollars to have avoided it.
Did several visits and deployments from III MEF on Okinawa to Subic during the mid-1980s. We always asked to be billeted at the BOQ at Cubi Point if available. Very nice, as you said. Great views of the airfield and bay. This was good because I had no interest in Olongapo whatsoever and never did set foot in it except when I was traveling through by vehicle to some place else (like Clarke, Manila, or the comm station at San Miguel(?)).
The thing I remember best was Sunday champagne brunch at the Cubi Point Officer’s Club. Great spread and another great view of the flight line. (It was a special treat if the scenery included a capital ship tied up there vs mainside.).
But the main attraction was the show band. Always terrific musicians and singers with well rehearsed and performed Broadway songs. Used to take me two hours to eat breakfast because I’d sit there listening to full sets in between courses.
Huh? ...Guantanamo Bay was created by nature. It’s off the coast of Cuba.
My carrier went there twice after leaving the shipyards to conduct shakedown trials and pilot carrier qualifications.
I fully agree with your comment.
(I served in Catapults on a carrier during the Cold War.)
NSU?
Same here.
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