Posted on 06/07/2019 2:33:56 PM PDT by marktwain
“All right bear, I know what you’re thinking. Did he fire five shots or six? Well, in all this excitement I kind of forgot myself. But the Constitution says I have the right to bear arms and yours are the only bear arms around here...”
“Could a Pistol Have Made a Difference in the Fatal Bear Attack on Mother and Child?”
Is a duck’s butt watertight?
A dog would have been an early warning system.
Ovcharka - from Russia, strong breed, and give you some time to arm yourself.
A .50, maybe. However, in the UP, the bears we experienced there were deterred by gunfire. A few shots and they took off.
It depends on whether or not the bears are accustomed to Humans being around as well. They might not be afraid of all of that noise if they are regularly near Humans and roadways.
I went outside last year and a bear was in the yard...I got back inside quickly...lol
They stun them and put sat tracker collars on them here.,,they can see exactly where they are 24/7
“Hey, I gots to know”.
... the guy’s lying in a doorway bleeding to death. Where was he going to go even if he did shoot and kill Clint?
When hunting in bear country I carry a Ruger Blackhawk in .41 mag with hard cast bullets. A wheelgun is more reliable.
Good to hear from you my brother in arms in Canada. I realize the RCMP didn’t write the bleeding laws. Just like here...it’s the FILTHY POLITICIANS!
7mm Remington Mag is heap bad medicine! If it took multiple shots then he didn’t hit it in right spot. Placement is everything on these creatures.
Forget about going to the parks with me.
The gun would jump out of my hand like Fredo’s did in The Godfather.
7mm Remington Mag is heap bad medicine! If it took multiple shots then he didn’t hit it in right spot. Placement is everything on these creatures.
I love the .45 auto, I have 3 of them. But it's far from the best choice for bears, particularly brown bears (grizzly).
.45 is a great man-stopper, but big brown bears have thick hides, tons of muscle, and bones that are much larger than ours.
Alaskan guides who hunt these bears usually advise clients to use .30-06 and larger calibers, with the .338 Win Mag being the favorite of most of them.
But the guides also carry guns, too. These are the "stopper guns" in case of a bear attack. So useful for ending a bears charge quickly, which is different than shooting one at 100 or 200 yards. For that the favorite calibers are .45-70. the .450 Marlin and .40 caliber bolt actions.
Every round mentioned has far superior terminal ballistic performance to the .45 ACP !! (They are all rifle rounds) A hand gun is distinctly "second choice" for brown bear protection.
The .44 Mag would be the absolute minimum for a self-defense handgun in Grizzly Country. Loaded with heavy-for-caliber bullets it would be an OK choice.
Far better would be the bigger pistol calibers like the .45 Casull, the .475 Limbaugh, the .460 and .50 S&W Magnums and others of that sort.
| CARTRIDGE | BULLET WEIGHT | MUZZLE VELOCITY --FPS | ENERGY FT-LBS | TKO | Notes: |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| .357 Mag | 158gr | 1235 | 535 | 12 | Rem HTP SJHP |
| .45 ACP | 230gr | 850 | 391 | 15 | Rem GS-BB |
| .44 Mag | 225gr | 1235 | 762 | 21 | Rem HH |
| .460 S&W | 300gr. | 2060 | 2826 | ~38 | Buff.B. |
| .30-06 | 220 | 2410 | 2837 | 20 | Rem. CL-SP |
| .338 Win Mag | 250 | 2600 | 3752 | 30 | CL-SP |
| .416 Rem Mag | 400 | 2500 | 5551 | 57 | Nos.Part. |
| .45/70 Gov | 405 | 1590 | 2273 | 35 | Rem.CL-SP |
| 12 Gauge Slug | 300 | 2000 | 2664 | Horn.SST |
You can see the minimum cartridge that is generally suggested for hunting brown bear, the great old .30-06, shoots a bullet weighing the same as a .45 almost three times faster and results in muzzle energy of 2800 ft/lbs vs. the .45's measly 390 ft/lbs. It's just two slow to reliably penetrate something as tough as a bear at that level. In fact, many would say the smaller .357 would be a better choice, and the energy number explains it.
All the rifles tower over all the pistols except for the relatively new S&W .460 Mag (and the similar .500 Mag). The .500 is a purpose built bear-stopper, and the .460 is a longer range version of the same. These are phenomenal cartridges that would be ideal for bear self-protection, providing, as they do, the same energy as some rifles, including the .30-06.
About the TKO Factor
There was a well known African big-game hunter named John "Pondoro" Taylor who felt that the common "energy" measurement (which is a basics high school physics formula of K.E.= 1/2 M*V^2) was not a true representation of the effects he saw different calibers in his African Big Game hunting experience. So he came up with the Taylor Knock Out Factor, which is calculated as:
Taylor felt that velocity (which is squared in the Kinetic Energy formula) was "over-valued" when KE was used to compare killing power on dangerous game, and he was sure that bullet diameter played a factor. Thus his formula. He also felt that it was important for hunting bullets to "knock out", that is kill instantly or disable big game. A 6.5mm high velocity round might punch a long narrow hole through an elephant, that would eventually cause it to bleed out, but it wasn't a good choice for stopping a charging bull.
Taylor was quite specific that his TKOF was only for comparing rifle cartridges, so he probably wouldn't agree with using it for handguns like the .45 - which no one in their right mind would ever try to hunt an elephant with - but with the .460 and similar super-magnums it probably works ok.
Either way it gives another view of why all the conventional pistol cartridges are much less effective in the bear-stopper role than pretty much any good .30 caliber or greater rifle, or the new super-magnums.
I hope you found this information interesting.
I go into black bear country regularly. I leave my beloved .45's at home and carry a .44 mag. If I were going in Brown Bear country I'd invest in a .460 or .500 Mag for bear defense, or carry a bigger caliber rifle with me at all times.
I've seen a lot of bears in the wild, but never been attacked by one, and take a lot of precautions to avoid them while walking and camping. That's an important first step, too.
Nice shot with a few things to give some sense of size, of the S&W .500 Mag revolver. A purpose-built bear-stopper.
A true African Rifle, this Winchester Safari in .416 Remington Mag would be an ideal choice for a bolt-action bear-stopper, and it would make a fine choice for hunting brown bear, if you were so inclined.
Follow up shot with broken wrist...problematic.
5.5 g (85 gr) JHP[2] 376 m/s (1,230 ft/s) 390 J (290 ft⋅lbf)
5.8 g (90 gr) FMJ[2] 409 m/s (1,340 ft/s) 488 J (360 ft⋅lbf)
5.5 g (85 gr) FMJ[3] 469 m/s (1,540 ft/s) 605 J (446 ft⋅lbf)
5.5 g (85 gr) FMJ[4] 497 m/s (1,630 ft/s) 697 J (514 ft⋅lbf)
5.5 g (85 gr) JHP[4] 482 m/s (1,580 ft/s) 655 J (483 ft⋅lbf)
7.62x25 tok. From the Wiki article, powder load specs are there.
While the projectile is quite small, the penetration is AWESOME! Ammo is pretty durned cheap, too. ;-)
> The best plan(if you must) is to travel in armed pairs of humans with at least a 15’ gap.
And if your partner might be able to outrun you then shoot ‘em in the leg.
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