Posted on 05/31/2019 7:15:12 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I keep reading where the Chinese are flaying us in trade. Balance of trade deficits keep going up, and the Chicken Littles scream that the sky is falling.
Seems to me balance-of-trade worries are misplaced. Supposedly, we got equal value for what we spent; it's just easier to quantify the dollars we put up than the goods they put up.
Example: Who got more out of the deal when you bought your car? All you got was a car, but the dealer got, say, $40K. Is your balance of trade with the dealer out of whack? Not at all. He got money; you got a car. Fair trade. Both sides got what they wanted at an agreed on price.
Meanwhile, a guy the next town over is selling solar equipment at $40K per average house. He bought a new car from the car dealer, but the car dealer didn't return the favor — he didn't buy solar equipment, even though the cost of solar in that specific town was artificially reduced by government tariff. In the free market, it would go at $45k. This is nice for solar workers in town, but it puts them out of work in the car dealer's town.
But the real issue isn't tariffs or balances of trade. The real issue is that the car dealer just doesn't like solar, even at special prices. By extant thinking, that's not fair. If solar guy's going to spend money in car dealer's town, then car dealer guy should spend money in his town. Right?
I'm willing to be educated on this, but in this example, nobody got shafted, and everybody did what he thought was in his own best interest. Balance of trade considerations didn't enter in at all, anywhere, even though the solar guy was "cheating."
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Globalism isn’t even good morally speaking. We Outsource factories to Nations where they pay the absolute minimum to workers, and it will enforce absolutely no rules against pollution. If one of those countries decides to elevate itself a little bit, the globalist pop over to the next country that will play ball out of desperation. When they get a little uppity, they hop again to another country. It’s a cynical race to the bottom.
I am convinced that if Nazi Germany existed today, we would allow factories to open near the concentration camps because of free labor. We quite literally do that right now with North Korean work zones.
RE: Lower labor costs, less regulation, lower taxes, etc. play a role. The US must create a more friendly environment for business. Trump is doing that with the lowering of the corporate tax rate, cutting regulations, lowering energy costs, etc.
Well, suppose we have all the above,and Trump is already doing his best to provide this environment, still, we have Medicare, Social Security, Payroll taxes, 5 Day workweeks and other things that Chinese workers do not have. This will decrease the cost of making things in the USA I’ll give you that, but will these really offset the labor cost savings in China where they DO NOT HAVE all the above benefits mandated by law?
RE: Some of the most prosperous times in US history came during times of tariffs.
Question, during those times, did the USA have Medicare, Social Security, Payroll taxes, environmental regulations like we have today?
If the answer is No, then the USA was like what China is then today.
Dear God these Free Traitors™ are idiots!!!!
Tariffs HELP the American economy and the American worker. They know it and they like tariffs. Wall Street is not Main Street. Free Traitors™ like you need to shut up and get behind the President or slit your own throat ( preferably with a Chinese made imported kitchen knife).
I’d like on of these Free Traitors™ explain how decreasing demand for foreign made tariffed product affects one US worker negatively?
The problem with a 10% tariff on Chinese crap is an hour later you want a 20% tariff.
Which has nothing to do with tariffs. But the revenue generating aspects of a tariff will help pay for the socialist programs that free trade begets. Thanks Free Traitors™.
The question to ask is, why does China, Germany, Japan, etc. like trade surpluses. These are not dumb people.
Modern day trade surpluses are like the old mercantilism where the dollar has replaced gold.
Why would country prefee having a large amount of gold or dollars or gold stashed away? For the same reason wise infividuals would prefer a big fat bank account than a lot of quickly depreciating consumer goods stashed in their garages. You can do a lot more with those dollars than with a lot of crap rotting away.
And the trade imbalance is more than about trading goods for money, it’s also about trading jobs for welfare. The idea that we give them the low skilled jobs and we keep the high skilled jobs implies that our low skilled workers suddenly become geniuses and start doing high skill work. Instead what happens is most end up in some form of government dole.
So basically, you’re saying, “Learn to code.”
Seriously, you paint with way to wide a brush.
There are certainly important industries a nation needs to keep in an uncertain world. Steel and iron manufacturing, ship-building, aircraft manufacturing, certain high-tech electronics, etc.
Strategically, what would happen if we went to war with China, and all of these industries were outsourced?
Plus, it is important to keep Americans working. Ideally, those jobs would be high-tech, state-of-the-art, and well-paying. However, the system we had under Obama was way to far to the opposite end, and as he said “Those manufacturing jobs are never coming back.”
Well, under Trump, Obama was proved wrong.
Worth repeating.
(2) Manufacturing jobs are middle class & upper middle class jobs.
(3) Manufacturing creates more wealth than any other activity.
(4) Loss of wealth in the country is the reason people can't find jobs with better wages.
RE: So basically, you’re saying, “Learn to code.”
Not necessarily. Learn to adapt to new technologies. Switchboard operators for instance, did not starve to death after automated switching became prevalent. They adapted and learned to move on to other industries.
I think this gets to the heart of the problem.
We are supposed to have LIMITED government. And for a long time we did.
We didn't have welfare, we didn't have social programs, we didn't have busybody agencies looking at us through microscopes. The government did a few relatively small tasks, and life was mostly OK.
Then the Progressives arrived. They had big plans. They wanted to punish the rich, lift up the poor, expand government, and make the world a perfect place. But the revenue from tariffs was insufficient for such utopian dreams. And that's why Income Tax became so necessary.
I'd like income tax to go away, tariffs to become more central, and government to become a whole lot smaller. It worked before. It could work again. But we would have to cast aside the dreams of the Progressives.
And if we replace Income Tax with some sort of national retail sales tax, that might be OK too.
Nuttin' like dependency and the Chinese government subsidizing industries and trade proves that. Just look at how they don't worry about Chinese workers not having jobs when those subsidized industries don't have unfettered access to foreign markets. All the Free Traitors are writing articles about how the Chinese are shrugging off the tariffs and laughing at Trump for trying them, not insisting that he should remove them, right?
Don't employees State and Federal governments deserve to enjoy the same benefits from jobs leaving the US as the lowly factory worker gets?
Yup, the way to build the economy is to worry about nothing except cheap labor and if it's overseas, so be it. The real problem is that we just move manufacturing when to fully benefit we need to move two thirds of the jobs government employees at all levels of government do to China or Vietnam as well as the manufacturing jobs.
Elitist says: “Screw you, I got my portfolio nice and fat.”
Non-elitist loses job to China/Mexico/Vietnam/Kenya/Myanmar/South Jerkistan...
Worker says: “Guess I’ll go on unemployment, then welfare if nothing gets better...”
deomcrap politician says: “Hey worker, vote for us, and we’ll get back at those who screwed you out of your job by taxing the snot out of ‘em!”
Worker votes democrap. Turns out, democraps are elitists, too. Uses political power to get their own portfolios nice and fat. They raise taxes; other elitists use tax code to find loopholes, not pay. Workers still working pay more, get screwed, too.
Worker sinks further...
Trump says: “Hey worker, vote for me and I’ll make America stronger, better, and great again! I know how to deal with scum buckets who smile and then screw you over.”
Elitist says: “What? Tariffs! That’s so wrong! You’ll screw our portfolios!”
Trump says: “No. We’ll use tariffs to BARGAIN. Get our jobs back, make trade with USA more fair, no one gets screwed anymore. Sure, your portfolio may shrink a little at first, but later, Boom! Hugely bigly!”
Elitist says: “What about meh Russia? Impeach!”
RE: Why sure, move the industries, the jobs that go with them, the IP, and the research that develops the IP to the cheapest producer and don’t worry about the shrinking tax base.
OK, what do you propose then? If we don’t make it in China, we will make it in say, Vietnam ( which many FReepers are suggesting will happen ).
Suppose we move all our factories out of China to these countries, What advantage does moving to Vietnam ( or the Philippines, or Thailand, etc. ) give to the USA?
Or do you suggest that we don’t EVER establish any manufacturing elsewhere in the world and make all of them here REGARDLESS of cost.
Geesh.
That’s because ALL those advances in technology (like analog switch boards to automatic switching, or horses and wagons to automobiles—did you even acknowledge what I said about Henry Ford???) happened HERE. Not in China, or Vietnam, or Myanmar.
So, yes, you’re saying “Learn to code.”
RE: We’ll use tariffs to BARGAIN. Get our jobs back, make trade with USA more fair, no one gets screwed anymore
OK, I’d like to understand what FAIR trade with China looks like.
Is it the case that they tax us X% and we tax them X% in return? Is it the case that they tax us 0% and we do something similarly?
For that matter, say the taxes on our exports and their imports are ZERO, do you really believe that all manufacturing jobs that went to China will now come back with this scenario given that their labor costs and benefits are several orders of magnitude lower than ours?
And if the answer is no, even with this concession they give, what more does FAIR trade look like?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.