Mormons reverse policy, allow blessings and baptism for kids of gay parents

Oregonian ^ | 04/05/2019 | Washington Post

[MHGinTN]

Are you a Catholic?... Your religion, if you are Catholic, commands you to believe what the hierarchy dictates regarding the line of papacy.

As a non-Catholic I would whisper to you that JESUS never established a papacy or an org to dictate worship dogma. In fact, in The Revelation He even mentions He hates orgs (Nicolaitans anyone?) doing that way back in the first decades from the razing of Jerusalem. But of course, as a good Catholic you must ignore my whisper, so I won't bother.

[CommerceComet]

its doesn’t matter one iota what the pope says....he is not the catholic church.....

What happens if Francis takes one of his goofball ideas and declares it a papal bull?

[Songcraft]

Hey!   (Is his name, by any chance, Elsie?)        :-)

[Songcraft]

"The Catholic Church is the original church, founded by St. Peter."

"The one that spun off all those 7 Catholic churches in Asia that the angel told John to write to?"

There are currently 24 "churches", inside the "Catholic Church", which can each be addressed individually (such as "The Maronite Church", or "The Coptic Church", or "The Latin Church", or "The Greek Byzantine Catholic Church", etc.). Why does that give you so much trouble, Elsie?   The One Church founded by Jesus Christ can be addressed at many subdivided levels (and often is).   (Just do a simple Google search on any one of these "Churches" or "Traditions", and see for yourself.)

CATHOLIC CHURCHES

Latin liturgical tradition:
   Latin Church

Alexandrian liturgical tradition:
   Coptic Catholic Church
   Ethiopian Catholic Church
   Eritrean Catholic Church

Antiochian liturgical tradition:
   Maronite Church
   Syriac Catholic Church
   Syro-Malankara Catholic Church

Armenian liturgical tradition:
   Armenian Catholic Church

East Syriac or Chaldean liturgical tradition:
   Chaldean Catholic Church
   Syro-Malabar Catholic Church

Byzantine liturgical tradition:
   Albanian Greek Catholic Church
   Belarusian Greek Catholic Church
   Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church
   Greek Catholic Church of Croatia and Serbia
   Greek Byzantine Catholic Church
   Hungarian Greek Catholic Church
   Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
   Macedonian Greek Catholic Church
   Melkite Greek Catholic Church
   Romanian Greek Catholic Church
   Russian Greek Catholic Church
   Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church (also known in the United States as the Byzantine Catholic Church)
   Slovak Greek Catholic Church
   Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church

There are (approximately) 223,128 Catholic parishes in cities all over the world, each of which can also be accurately addressed individually as a separate church.

Don't you get that simple point?

[Songcraft]

My brother, Elsie, you post quotes from Augustine in a similar way to the way you post Bible texts -- very selectively.   You only post the ones you think somehow bolster your viewpoint, but you always neglect to post the other ones that directly contradict your viewpoint.   For example, why don't you ever post these quotes from Augustine?

• Augustine, letter:

  "If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. … In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found" (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).

• Augustine, sermon:

  "Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear 'I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven'" (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

• Augustine, Bible commentary:

  "Some things are said which seem to relate especially to the apostle Peter, and yet are not clear in their meaning unless referred to the Church, which he is acknowledged to have represented in a figure on account of the primacy which he bore among the disciples. Such is ‘I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ and other similar passages. In the same way, Judas represents those Jews who were Christ’s enemies" (Commentary on Psalm 108 1 [A.D. 415]).

• Augustine, Bible commentary:

  "Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?" (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).

There are many other quotes from the Early Church Fathers you never post, that also contradict your viewpoint, such as those found here:

       "Origins of Peter as Pope"

and here:

       "Peter’s Primacy"

Augustine, of course, was a bad boy for many years, and did not get converted to Christianity until he was into his 30's, (after many prayers and tears of his Mother).   His views changed and developed over time, and many of his views and interpretations were eventually adopted by the Church.

Augustine became an anointed priest (under the pope of that time), then later became anointed the Bishop of Hippo, (also under the pope), so he obviously believed in apostolic succession.   He lived only several hundred years after the apostles, so he clearly understood the ramifications of his joining the Catholic Church, and becoming a Catholic priest, then becoming a Catholic bishop.

The Orthodox Christians also consider Peter the first "Patriarch of Antioch", and for the Orthodox, the Patriarch of Antioch (where the Christians were first called Christians - Acts 11:26) is one of the original patriarchs of Early Christianity, who presided over the bishops of Syria, Palestine and Georgia.

These links shed light on the primacy of Peter, that Augustine clearly spoke about:

       "St. Peter the Apostle"

       "Which disciple is mentioned the most in the Bible?"

[Songcraft]

Wow, that sounds just like an AOC argument!

Point #1:   You are not putting limitations on a person, you are putting limitations on God.   Can God enable a person to handle that, if He so wills it, or is that impossible for God to do?

Point #2:   Do you somehow think that God and Heaven run on the same time system and division as the time system on earth, with it's 24-hour sunrise, sunset, time pattern?

Point #3:   Can God enable His creation to have things happen to them "in the twinkling of an eye", or is that too tough for God?

[Songcraft]

One of your sources there ("Was Peter the First Pope?" - "https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20151201/was-peter-the-first-pope/") is the "Jehovah's Witnesses", who not only don't believe that Peter was the first Pope, but they also don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God!

[MHGinTN]

Why attack the source when the material is what you want to oppose?...

From the JW article: " Was Jesus saying that his “church,” or congregation, would be built upon Peter, a man? Was Peter to be the head of all other followers of Jesus? How did the other apostles present at that conversation understand Jesus’ words? The Gospels reveal that later, on a number of occasions, they argued about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 20:20-27; Mark 9:33-35; Luke 22:24-26) If Jesus had already given Peter primacy, or superiority, could there have been any question as to who was the greatest among the apostles?

[Songcraft]

Those "Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation" you like to keep posting, my brother, Elsie, were written by this fruity little man named Sweeney (who refers to himself as "The Professional Paranoid").

       

Several of the silly, paranoid, snowflaky rules this fairy compiled, would apply in a negative way to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, if applied in a non-digital way.   (Remember these?)

---

And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He did not answer.   Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?"   And He did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so the governor was quite amazed.   Matthew 27:12-14

---

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."
Matthew 10:14

---

Jesus obviously did not believe in responding to everything put to him, nor did He advocate endlessly going back and forth, back and forth, with ornery, obstinate people, over, and over, and over again, but, rather, He demonstrated that silence was sometimes the best response, and that shaking the dust off your feet at those who just won't listen to you, is often the right thing to do.

Another point to remember is this:   you told all of us that you are about the same age as Bernie Sanders.   Now, you may have the time on your hands to sit around at your computer all day and night, posting endless streams of repetitive gems of wisdom, from early in the morning, till late at night, but some of us are not as "seasoned" as you, Elsie, and we cannot just totally abandon or neglect our family, friends, duties, responsibilities, etc., and respond to every single marvelous thing you post here, like that gay guy Sweeney the Weenie advocates.   And, frankly, my brother Elsie, your own impressive profusion of long, repetitive, inaccurate, "friendly" posts, get to be a bit tedious to read and respond to after a while, so other folks here, who aren't tied to their computers, have to sometimes just get up and walk away from all those words, for a while.

A much better way to assess this, than that fruity homosexual Sweeney's "25 Rules", would be to simply make this assessment:   Is what is being said, true, or is it false?   That's it.   (Unless you are joking, or being facetious, simply use this chart as a guideline, and you can't go wrong, my brother, Elsie.)

"The Truth" - John 14:6	"The Father of Lies" - John 8:44
When you tell the truth, you are working for this side.	When you tell a lie, you are working for this side.
When you deny that a false statement is true, you are working for this side.	When you claim a false statement is true, you are working for this side.
When you disagree with someone making a false statement, you are working for this side.	When you agree with someone making a false statement, you are working for this side.
When you agree with someone telling the truth, you are working for this side.	When you disagree with someone telling the truth, you are working for this side.
When you follow the teachings and examples of Jesus concerning totally silent responses, or simply leaving a discussion completely, (shaking the dust off your feet at the ones you were talking to) you are working for this side.	When you try to follow those "25 Rules" from that fruity homosexual, "Sweeney the Weenie", (whose rules would attack even Jesus Christ), you are working for this side.

Now I'm going to "Hit-and-run", and shake off the dust of my feet (as I have to go somewhere tonight), so I wish you a pleasant evening Brother Elsie!   See you in the next thread that comes along, and, may God bless you!

[Songcraft]

There is no attack in that post - just the simple statement of a fact.

Regarding the apostles, of course they didn't understand what He meant at the time, about almost every single thing He said!   Their understanding about all these things came very MUCH later.   (Have to say goodnight, as I have to run now.)

[OddLane]

I don’t have a Pope.

[ConservativeMind]

Apparently, you didn’t read my other earlier links concerning at least seven simultaneous Christian branches.

For my argument, it does not matter. In fact, it enhances my position.

[Elsie]

If you fail to put the words of the phrase in quotes; you WILL get a lot of hits; of each individual word!

[Elsie]

How are these workin' for ya??

 

 

 

5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.“ There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

7. “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.“ Don’t become old news.

8. “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.“ Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.

12. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.“ Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

[Elsie]

Don't you get that simple point?

I do; I DO!!

Seven Catholic churches in Asia were so screwed up that an angel had to tell John to write to them with dire warnings.

---

I hope this isn't too simple for you; though.

[Elsie]

#23. Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.

[Elsie]

  why don't you ever post these quotes from Augustine?

 

Well; I'll let you do it.

• Augustine, letter:

  "If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. … In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found" (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).

• Augustine, sermon:

  "Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear 'I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven'" (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

• Augustine, Bible commentary:

  "Some things are said which seem to relate especially to the apostle Peter, and yet are not clear in their meaning unless referred to the Church, which he is acknowledged to have represented in a figure on account of the primacy which he bore among the disciples. Such is ‘I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ and other similar passages. In the same way, Judas represents those Jews who were Christ’s enemies" (Commentary on Psalm 108 1 [A.D. 415]).

• Augustine, Bible commentary:

  "Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?" (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).

Matthew 20:21

Jesus asked her what she wanted, and she said, “When you come into your kingdom, please let one of my sons sit at your right side and the other at your left.”.

.

 

Mark 10:35-40

 

35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him. “Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do for us whatever we ask.”

36 “What do you want me to do for you?” he asked.

37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”

38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”

39 “We can,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, 40 but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant.

These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”

[Elsie]

Have I thanked you for showing that Catholicism has managed to create two sides to every problem and that by being 'selective' one can make the ECF's say ANYTHING?

If not, then...

Thank You!