Thanks wildbill. Hip, hip, Herodotus!
Posted on 03/23/2019 3:53:54 PM PDT by wildbill
You have to read the article to get the importance of the description Herodotus gave in his book, which had been doubted for years, and the fact that the ship they discovered has exactly those unique construction features he described.
Vergil mentions nine men by name - more are implied.
Could have been two hidden in the ‘horse’ and the other men could have been on the wall-climb party, to name just one possibility.
#9. I was one of Louie’s “millions”. I felt so small surrounded by all those people, who were NOT there.
Still have my “Million Man March” button right next to my “Humphrey For President” button right next to one of my “One Nuke Can Wreck Your Day” buttons that I sent to Hanoi.
That's not what happened.
When Hattusas was discovered, the Old Testament "Hittite" name was used to label its empire.
I started this one in 2015, not sure I'd managed to finish posting the whole thing. Since I got around to finishing "Huckleberry Finn" the other night (after a three or four year hiatus), who knows? I may finish it soon. :^)
As far as this point then, and on land, as far as Thermopylae, the armament of Xerxes had been free from mischance; and the numbers were still, according to my reckoning, of the following amount. First there was the ancient complement of the twelve hundred and seven vessels which came with the king from Asia -- the contingents of the nations severally -- amounting, if we allow to each ship a crew of two hundred men, to 241,400 -- Each of these vessels had on board, besides native soldiers, thirty fighting men, who were either Persians, Medes, or Sacans; which gives an addition of 36,210. To these two numbers I shall further add the crews of the penteconters; which may be reckoned, one with another, at fourscore men each. Of such vessels there were (as I said before) three thousand; and the men on board them accordingly would be 240,000. This was the sea force brought by the king from Asia; and it amounted in all to 517,610 men. The number of the foot soldiers was 1,700,000; that of the horsemen 80,000; to which must be added the Arabs who rode on camels, and the Libyans who fought in chariots, whom I reckon at 20,000. The whole number, therefore, of the land and sea forces added together amounts to 2,317,610 men. Such was the force brought from Asia, without including the camp followers, or taking any account of the provision -- ships and the men whom they had on board.
To the amount thus reached we have still to add the forces gathered in Europe, concerning which I can only speak from conjecture. The Greeks dwelling in Thrace, and in the islands off the coast of Thrace, furnished to the fleet one hundred and twenty ships; the crews of which would amount to 24,000 men. Besides these, footmen were furnished by the Thracians, the Paeonians, the Eordians, the Bottiaeans, by the Chalcidean tribes, by the Brygians, the Pierians, the Macedonians, the Perrhaebians the Enianians, the Dolopians, the Magnesians, the Achaeans and by all the dwellers upon the Thracian sea-board; and the forces of these nations amounted, I believe, to three hundred thousand men. These numbers, added to those of the force which came out of Asia, make the sum of the fighting men 2,641,610.
Such then being the number of the fighting men, it is my belief that the attendants who followed the camp, together with the crews of the corn-barks, and of the other craft accompanying the army, made up an amount rather above than below that of the fighting men. However I will not reckon them as either fewer or more, but take them at an equal number. We have therefore to add to the sum already reached an exactly equal amount. This will give 5,283,220 as the whole number of men brought by Xerxes, the son of Darius, as far as Sepias and Thermopylae.
Such then was the amount of the entire host of Xerxes. As for the number of the women who ground the corn, of the concubines, and the eunuchs, no one can give any sure account of it; nor can the baggage-horses and other sumpter-beasts, nor the Indian hounds which followed the army, be calculated, by reason of their multitude. Hence I am not at all surprised that the water of the rivers was found too scant for the army in some instances; rather it is a marvel to me how the provisions did not fail, when the numbers were so great. For I find on calculation that if each man consumed no more than a choenix of corn a day, there must have been used daily by the army 110,340 medimni, and this without counting what was eaten by the women, the eunuchs, the sumpter-beasts, and the hounds. Among all this multitude of men there was not one who, for beauty and stature, deserved more than Xerxes himself to wield so vast a power.
-Herodotus, "Historia" BOOK VII 'Polymnia'
Only it was true. It wasn't actually ants, it was marmots, the confusion being one of translation. And they do gather gold in their tunnel spoils. It took no less than 2400 years for him to be proven right on that. That's a long time to wait for that last laugh, but he had it.
Love Herodotus!
People haven’t changed in the 2600 years since. (some change from Jesus).
The crazy things people will believe...
This is a fairly literal translation:
https://www.theoi.com/Text/VirgilAeneid2.html
...Sinon, shielded by the gods’ malign doom, stealthily sets free from the barriers of pine the Danaans shut within the womb.
The opened horse restores them to the air, and joyfully from the hollow wood come forth Thessandrus and Sthenelus the captains, and dread Ulysses, sliding down the lowered rope; Acamas and Thoas and Neoptolemus of Peleus’ line, prince Machaon, Menelaus, and Epeus himself, who devised the fraud. They storm the city, buried in sleep and wine; they slay the watch, and at the open gates welcome all their comrades and unite confederate bands.
Plutarch, what a maroon. :^) Thanks B the D.
The vessels used in Egypt for the transport of merchandise are made of the Acantha (Thorn), a tree which in its growth is very like the Cyrenaic lotus, and from which there exudes a gum. They cut a quantity of planks about two cubits in length from this tree, and then proceed to their ship-building, arranging the planks like bricks, and attaching them by ties to a number of long stakes or poles till the hull is complete, when they lay the cross-planks on the top from side to side. They give the boats no ribs, but caulk the seams with papyrus on the inside. Each has a single rudder, which is driven straight through the keel. The mast is a piece of acantha-wood, and the sails are made of papyrus. These boats cannot make way against the current unless there is a brisk breeze; they are, therefore, towed up-stream from the shore: down-stream they are managed as follows. There is a raft belonging to each, made of the wood of the tamarisk, fastened together with a wattling of reeds; and also a stone bored through the middle about two talents in weight. The raft is fastened to the vessel by a rope, and allowed to float down the stream in front, while the stone is attached by another rope astern. The result is that the raft, hurried forward by the current, goes rapidly down the river, and drags the "baris" (for so they call this sort of boat) after it; while the stone, which is pulled along in the wake of the vessel, and lies deep in the water, keeps the boat straight. There are a vast number of these vessels in Egypt, and some of them are of many thousand talents' burthen.
-Herodotus, "Historia", BOOK II 'Euterpe'
the sunken port city of Thonis-Heracleion ...
I wonder what kind of SUV’s they were driving...
Yup - but Virgil wasn’t actually there at the Trojan War (12th or 11th century BC) as he published the Aenid somewhere between 29 and 19 BC. There’s about a thousand years between the event and the poem.
Just as Hollywood today takes artistic license with real events to produce entertaining media, is it too far a stretch to think that Virgil might have done the same? Especially with the distortion of events taking place at that remove of time?
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