Posted on 11/29/2018 2:31:07 AM PST by T-Bird45
A Supreme Court case about jurisdiction in an obscure murder has huge implications for tribes.
On the morning of June 22, 1839, the Cherokee leader John Ridge was pulled from his bed, dragged into his front yard and stabbed 84 times while his family watched. He was assassinated for signing the Cherokee Nation’s removal treaty, a document that — in exchange for the tribe’s homelands — promised uninterrupted sovereignty over a third of the land in present-day Oklahoma. That promise was not kept.
Sixty-seven years later, federal agents questioned John’s grandson, William D. Polson. They needed to add him to a list of every Cherokee living in Indian Territory to start the process of land allotments. Through allotment, all land belonging to the Cherokee Nation — the land John had signed his life for — would be split up between individual citizens and then opened up for white settlement. And by this grand act of bureaucratic theft, Oklahoma became a state.
(Excerpt) Read more at outline.com ...
‘They would love nothing more than to riddle the US with Frst Nations nonsence.’
‘diddle’ works in the sentence also...
I agree...
And I do think that really describes the intent.
Stain...schmain. Let’s get on with MAGA. The Indians lost...they were fortunate to not all ne killed.
Andrew Jackson instituted the “Trail of Tears.” And did it over the objection of SCOTUS. That means that the land the “Indians” - we’re all native Americans, if born here to citizen parents - were removed from has in that sense a defective title. But by now that is “too big to fail.” And the situation in Oklahoma is pretty much the same.LS made the point regarding land in places like Colorado that - although the Spaniards claimed it, and the Mexicans inherited that claim - the writ of Spain or of Mexico never ran there. The US took control of it, but not from Mexico - which never had control of it.
LS also, IIRC, made the point that instituting the rule of law and of clear titles to land in a place that doesn’t have it is inherently messy in the extreme. People are going to lose out with better claims than those they lose to, at least sometimes. It’s just that in the (not so very) long run, cutting that Gordian Knot is better than leaving it alone.
Ping to my #64.
What about oil and mineral rights?
The US should not honor it now. There are no Cherokees alive today that had their land taken that way, there are no US authorities alive today that took it. At this point to change the ownership of that land would create chaos. It would spread to every state and tribe. There were many treaties that were broken on both sides with many tribes. That is all water under the bridge and going back now to do anything about it is nonsense.
People used to start countries by conquering other people, that is how it once worked. Native Americans conquered each other for better areas to live, or hunt. In many cases we did acquire the land by trade, purchase, agreement. As was done all over. Who is going to research the land further back to find the supposed actual owners and find their descendants? How far do we go? We have DNA now so I guess we could look for descendants of the earliest known group in each area and give all the land to them. Of course we would have to repeat that every time there is proof of earlier inhabitants.
Are you willing to just give up your home? Wherever it is there were people before you there that claimed that same land.
This is all craziness...every inch of land that is owned in the world was once owned by others. I am sure the descendants of those that came before would love to be able to get that land back but really?
What really needs to happen is Native Americans, and African Americans need to just become Americans. Time for them to assimilate and not worry about what happened to their ancestors. As much as I love history I disagree with getting mired in it today. We need to move forward and deal with today’s issues, we have plenty of them to deal with.
So should the descendants be forced to pay for things their ancestors did? Would you want to be responsible for your ancestors? The fact is all we have now is stories, the people involved have long died. Maybe x swindled y out of their land and maybe not. People make bad decisions all the time, often from ignorance. People also do decide to sell land. I wish I had all the land my ancestors owned too but pretty sure that is not going to happen. Too much time has passed to try to sort it out now. Those descendants of people you claim were thieves have paid taxes on that land, have operated businesses on that land for many years and have followed the laws to keep that land. So you just want to take it from them and give it to other people who may or may not have actually had the land taken from an ancestor by an ancestor of theirs?
I never said I think land should be taken away from anybody. I merely told of some of the evil that was done. And they’re not just “stories”.
That is dishonorable. A treaty is a treaty, most were broken. The Indian Nations have sovereignty, the slaves did not.
Who is going to research the land further back to find the supposed actual owners and find their descendants? How far do we go?
Right straight to the treaties. This is a nation of laws.
Many treaties were made, and were broken on both sides. I see it as water under the bridge and know it would open a huge can of worms on land ownership all over the country with different tribes.
Personally if they do return land to the Cherokee I may profit since my mother’s family are tribal members.
Almost every one was broken by the US govt. So now you know the meaning of "White man speak with forked tongue". The Lakota still have quite a bit of reservation land, but only a fraction of the original land which included the Black Hills and virtually all of South Dakota plus large portions of surrounding states. One nation in the Northwest was promised one horse or cow per tribal member per year.....never honored. By now, that's quite a large herd.
I see it as water under the bridge
I see it as a huge national disgrace. Lies, theft and deception....much like the modern RATs. The most rich and powerful nation on Earth treating its people in that manner.
it would open a huge can of worms on land ownership all over the country with different tribes.
Maine had a huge Indian Land Claims settlement back in the 70s.
if they do return land to the Cherokee, I may profit since my mother’s family are tribal members.
Well then, I'd think you'd be a little more likely to stick up for them.
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