Posted on 10/27/2018 5:50:38 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
Turks and Saudis have been enemies for centuries. Now the Khashoggi investigation has rekindled their fierce rivalry—and may upend the politics of the Middle East.
Two centuries ago, in the fall of 1818, the Saudi monarch was brought to Istanbul in chains. He was displayed in a cage to the cheering crowds outside the Hagia Sophia mosque, and then, amid celebratory fireworks, his head was chopped off.
This gruesome episode in the shared history of Turkey and Saudi Arabia hasn’t been mentioned in public as the two countries have clashed over the Oct. 2 killing of the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul. But the long legacy of rivalry between the two Sunni Muslim powers—both of them key American allies—has fueled Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s determination to punish the House of Saud for Mr. Khashoggi’s death.
In the wake of Mr. Khashoggi’s killing, Mr. Erdogan proclaimed that Turkey “is the only country that can lead the Muslim world.” This, of course, is also the role that the House of Saud sees as its natural right because of the kingdom’s control over Islam’s holiest sites in Mecca and Medina, and over the hajj pilgrimage that brings more than two million Muslims there each year.
In this contest, Iran—whose Shiite version of Islam represents a small minority of the predominantly Sunni Muslim world—can’t really compete. For now, Tehran is happy to watch from the sidelines as its two main regional rivals undermine each other and leave Western powers with few good options for how to react.
Saudi Arabia’s 33-year-old Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has tried to assert Riyadh’s ambition to lead the Middle East ever since his father ascended to the throne in 2015..
(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...
WSJ names Trofimov its chief foreign affairs correspondent (September 17, 2018)
This is a very well written article explaining the history of conflict between Turkey (Ottoman Empire) and Saudi Arabia. I believe the history described is accurate. I differ with the conclusion of the effect of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, Turkey. Turkey is making an attempt to displace Saudi Arabia as the center of Islam. But Turkey's credibility is extremely low.
"Turkey under Mr. Erdogan has imprisoned more journalists than any other state, press-freedom groups say. It has also pursued opponents abroad with its own program of renditions, though it doesn’t have a death penalty." -
"Thanks to the Khashoggi affair, however, Mr. Erdogan’s Turkey can finally credibly claim the moral high ground—a major boon for Ankara’s regional ambitions."
The bold type in the 2 quotes from the conclusion by the author are incorrect, in my opinion.
BFL
King of the dipwads
I believe the world would be a much better place if all of Woodrow Wilson’s work were undone.
We already see, in the Visegrad Group, the restoration of Austria. If Western Ukraine (Lemberg/Lwow/Lviv) breaks off and joins along with Croatia, that’s step one.
I totally favor Turkish suzerainty over the Arabs. Johnny Turk knew how to sort out those barbarians, he consistently did what we would never do, and as long as we have missile subs on station with the GPS coordinates of Topkapi Palace pre-programmed, I don’t see a downside.
I’m afraid the German and British empires are irretrievably lost, however.
We shouldn’t pick winners and losers. Heard it before? Instead we should kick ass only AFTER they think the whole muslim world agrees with them and directs their anger towards the west.
We need to steal nuclear material from both. Nuke them both then flood the region with weapons, intel and fake unity. Kill about 500k of the 1.3B members of Islam and set them all back 500 years. If I was only president for a week.
Am I harsh ? Screw Islam. Hey UK and EU - ban me from vacationing in you soon to be Islamic lands.
Works for this “infidel”. Aloha Snackbar!
I think that is why the house of Saud teemed up with Wahab to begin with. What they lacked in numbers vs. other Islamic factions like the Turks, they countered by being the keepers of the faith. Like European Kings would sick the Pope on their adversaries. I think the Turks will have to discredit Wahhabism in order to overcome the Saudis. One sad note is the Hagia Sophia was originally a beautiful Christian Cathederal. The Moody Church in Chicago was patterned after it.
Let them know in no uncertain terms that savage brutality will bet met with same, IN SPADES!
These people seem to understand only one thing. As much as we'd like to "play nice", sometimes the bully needs a serious lesson. We rapidly approach that moment.
The natural pecking order in the Islamic world is Turks-Persians-Arabs. The Turks keep the Persians from wiping out the Arabs.
Mr. Erdogan proclaimed that Turkey “is the only country that can lead the Muslim world.
*********
I wonder if Erdogan thinks he himself is the Mahdi, or does he just want to reestablish the Ottoman Caliphate.
It seems that Biblical prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes (Iran, Turkey, Russia alliance).
Possibly. But since WWII, it has been the US.
Turkey is on suicide course.
Saudi Arabia, is frightened of Turkey and Iran, with cause.
Kurds are in the middle of all this.
US, coalition and Kurds put ISIS lights about out in Syria and Iraq.
God is still in control.
Iran” might actually be overthrown.
Russia?? wild card.
Trump?? Never to be discounted.
Yep
Wilson was an academic. Had no business being President.
He was a globalist and a total disaster. Now we are it being replayed by the Globalists again.
Turks are now run by the Islamists. Fatal perscription. It was understood by the Kemalists. But in reality they were not that much better than the Islamists are, which is terrible.
Well from reading and seeing that it is publiczed here of the 1818 chained beheading by Turks, the Saudis’ will have one more chink in the Queer Turk armor; if you advocate Turkish stewardship you should also know they were kicked out the Korean UN for raping son of the the E-tae-won’s district leader. It just wasn’t one nasty Turk, but 7-9 of them; they had been raping Korean boys since 1953 according to historical records, but S. Korea never had recovered from the war enough to push back, which all changed over that one high level rape. Go watch Lawrence of Arabia, as an adult and you will see how they have historically acted amongst themselves and to towards non-Turks. We all know how queer that part of the world is... but to wish the Islamist leader of Turkey the chance to turn on the West (further) is to wish to for war with them. Turkey is Lost.
I do not wish the Infidel Turk the chance to war on the West - nor on Korean boys, either.
I want them to control Arabia, and Dar-al-Islam within its limits, with as much piety - and as much sick violence - as they can dish out, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING that we are ready, willing, and able to vaporize their rock, their palaces, and anything else of importance to them if they pursue expansion into our lands or conspire to hurt our people.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.