Posted on 09/25/2018 9:29:11 AM PDT by MaxistheBest
Past administrations have called out China for violating the internationally agreed-upon rules of trade for decades. After countless high-level talks, admonitions and appeals, China did nothing to change its cheating ways. President Trump has dispensed with the talk and taken action, slapping tariffs on billions of dollars of goods China exports to the United States at artificially low prices.
Naysayers predicted the president’s tariffs would tank the stock market and drag down the economy. But the Dow is posting record gains, unemployment is at a 49-year low and the economy remains strong.
The forecasters are at a loss to explain why reality isn’t conforming to what they learned in school. A Wall Street economist tells Reuters, “It’s like we have nothing to fear, but we should.”
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Now, as to why tariffs won’t necessarily mean higher prices for consumers:
The Trump tariffs are designed to inflict maximum damage on China while sparing American businesses and consumers. For the most part, they don’t target consumer goods.
And here’s the beauty part, how the tariffs are designed to hurt China: The Trump tariffs target items available from sources outside China. Buy from a supplier outside China, avoid the tariff. President Trump’s surgical strike tariffs are sending companies a clear message: Do business anywhere but China.
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...
Let's see. Do I buy expensive American-made goods or expensive Chinese-made goods?
It's a fundamental economic principle.
It's only going to cost more if the consumer is willing to pay a higher price for cheap chicom goods.
If the consumer doesn't buy the cheap chicom goods, then the tariffs won't cost the consumer a penny.
What am I missing here?
In the short term. Not in the long term.
Many manufacturing parts used by US companies are sourced in China. This is especially true for parts containing rare earth metals and the metals themselves for which China is practically the sole source. If the trade war becomes very difficult for the Chinese they could basically cut the amount of these items supplied to the US which would have a crippling effect on US high-tech and our military. We have foolishly ignored this problem for many years which could come back to bite us.
I keep seeing this: the GOPe is not officially socialist, but GOPe globalist anti American worker economic policies CREATE socialists.
For how long? That situation is not really indicative of the overall $850B problem. It's like when then media zooms in on the one kid in crowd of military aged "refugees" and say whole families are emigrating. That is a misrepresentation of the situation.
But back to your example: the supply situation is fluid and not static. A new supply WILL come on line, domestic hopefully.
What am I missing here?
You're missing (or ignoring) the fact that cost matters to most consumers. Hence the prevalence of Chinese made goods.
The Tucker household may be happy to pay more to buy American but the experience of the last 30 years says you're in the minority.
Or are you saying that the government should take away this consumer choice for the greater good?
The premise of your argument, as I understand it, is that as domestic production "kicks in" the cost will drop to match the pre-tariff Chinese cost.
Leaving aside the notion that the US will always be the lowest cost producer of everything, why did the manufacture of these products go elsewhere in the first place?
Maybe the tariffs will not be noticed by Americans, but especially next year if the they are raised to 25% and cover basically everything from China they may well cause a very noticeable inflationary effect for many of us. Then the question is how would our population react? There could very likely be a strong and popular push against Trump’s tariff policies. The Chinese people would also feel the effects of the tariff war. In this situation it would be a matter of which population has the greatest fortitude. Over here the will of the people matters, but in China the state is much more impervious to such pressures. My gut feeling is that we would fold first.
The Chinese are very adept at driving western rare earth mining operations out of business to eliminate competition. A good example of that is the now defunct Molycorp rare earth mine in Colorado. The Chinese drastically lowered the price of rare earths and drove Molycorp out of business, and then raised the price again. There is no way to beat them at that game unless we have state support for such ventures. Also the waste from these mines is normally radioactive so the pollution problem is very severe. The Chinese just bite the bullet and accept this, but here it would be problematic for us. Anyway, it would take many years to build up a production capacity to challenge the Chinese.
Rare earth metals per se may be a relatively small part of the trade balance, but they are extremely critical for our high-tech economy and this could be used to exert a great deal of leverage against us. If we were not able to build our military gear, and the necessary equipment to keep our economy going we would be in a world of hurt.
Or a tariff.
Once the tarrifs go into effect the cost of the chicom-made goods will rise.
The Tucker household may be happy to pay more to buy American but the experience of the last 30 years says you're in the minority.
True. But then I only own USA-branded cars. I was taught that charity begins at home. If I buy chicom goods, not only do I put money in the pockets of our enemy, but I hurt the US manufacturer.
The semimojo household may be happy to give your hard-earned dollars to our enemies, and unfortunately, you are in the majority.
Or are you saying that the government should take away this consumer choice for the greater good?
Now I know you're a bleeding-heart liberal because only those losers attempt to put words in other peoples' mouths.
No, it’s the ubiquitousness of chinese products in the marketplace that drives their purchase by consumers. For a plastic wastebasket for the powderroom, someone is going to by whatever suitable item is readily available. Any difference in quality is not worth the effort involved in finding a US-made alternative. The chinese make crap. They can’t even make paper clips or nail clippers where the cutting edges meet evenly. They are greedy thieves and slackers who have no pride in their work. If you are happy buying cheap chinese garbage, i’m happy to make you pay more for it.
——The Trump tariffs target items available from sources outside China. Buy from a supplier outside China, avoid the tariff.——
Ths is a restatement of several “bert” posts weeks ago and at least one I think today.
The anticipated revenue from tariffed china goods will be small, and certaainly not enough to tun the country.
OK. In your words then.
What's the justification for tariffs that raise the cost to consumers against their will?
You didn't read the article, did you?
Trump isn't raising tariffs across the board. Only on goods coming from China.
If those goods come from any other country but China, no tariff.
Where's your proof that the price of consumer goods are going up as a result of these tariffs?
Uh, I thought the problem was all of the manufacturing that had moved to China.
It happened because US consumers, in our collective opinion, got move value for our dollars by buying those products
We wouldn't have any Chinese products for sale here unless the consumers had voted for them in the first place.
Where's your proof that the price of consumer goods are going up as a result of these tariffs?
If those goods were available at the same cost, quality and quantity as they are from China you would have a point, but we both know they aren't.
There are lots of companies, and consumers, who would welcome dealing with other countries' producers if they could deliver the goods.
Besides, I thought the whole point of this exercise was to move jobs back to the US by subsidizing otherwise uncompetitive industries. Forcing us to buy from Vietnam instead of China only causes disruption in the market without creating one US job.
Actually, the point of the exercise is to get China to reduce their tariffs and their trade barriers.
No one but your own cheap self is forcing you to buy products from China or Vietnam.
The stated reasons are national security and intellectual property issues, but no matter, whatever the motivation the tariffs aren't going to be cost free to the American consumer, which was the ridiculous premise of the article.
Uh, yeah, that’s what I said. If you think a marketplace full of chinese crap was because of consumer choice, you are an idiot.
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