Cardinal Burke: ‘Very Grave Problem of Homosexual Culture in the Church

Breitbart ^ | Nolte

[wardaddy]

Cardinal Raymond Burke has called for “open recognition” of the Catholic church’s homosexual culture in light of recent revelations of sexual abuse. “I believe that there needs to be an open recognition that we have a very grave problem of a homosexual culture in the Church,” Burke said in an interview Thursday, “especially among the clergy and the hierarchy, that needs to be addressed honestly and efficaciously.”

he former head of the church’s equivalent of the Supreme Court said it was already “clear after the studies following the 2002 sexual abuse crisis that most of the acts of abuse were in fact homosexual acts committed with adolescent young men.”

“There was a studied attempt to either overlook or to deny this,” he said, referring to the mainstream media cover-up of the homosexual nature of the abuse as well as such denial within the church itself.

[Luircin]

When a Protestant posts clear Scripture, the Catholic ignores it completely.

Thank you for proving that your religion is absolutely wrong.

[Luircin]

Doesn’t say that.

***

Does say that in Greek because of the sentence construction.

It’s called learning the original languages.

YOUR Catholic scholars have said ‘faith alone’ for centuries until they wanted to slam the Protestants, the hypocrites.

Learn Scripture.

[Luircin]

I don’t see how in the world anyone could read this passage and not understand that salvation is a gift of God’s grace and we receive that gift by faith alone. How much clearer does he need to be? Anytime one adds extra stuff to be done to either obtain salvation or keep salvation, it nullifies grace. Grace MEANS undeserved, unmerited, unearned.

***

Pride in their own deeds. Desire to boast.

Jesus is going to be telling them ‘I never knew you.’

[boatbums]

faith alone

Doesn't say that. Read the Holy Scripture every once in a while, and believe it. Thank you for expressing your opinions to me.

Does Scripture HAVE to say something specifically and precisely the way you want in order for you to believe it? How about CONTEXT? How about repetition of a concept? How about the testimony and teachings of the Early Church Fathers???

I would wager I have read and studied the Holy Scriptures longer and more thoroughly than you ever have and I believe what God says. I don't have to have a magisterium interpret His words for me.

But, if you want to rely upon your good works to save you instead of the grace of God that GIFTS salvation to us through faith, go right ahead. You will have no excuse on the day of judgment.

[boatbums]

It is a spiritual pride that blinds people to the truth of the Gospel. I had a class in Bible college called Cults and World Religions and I was amazed at how similar they all were in regards to what the person must do to achieve the goal. But Christianity was the polar opposite. It wasn't what man must do for God, but what God has done for man - to bind mankind back to Him. That's how we can know a false religion - even those that claim to be Christian. If it's based on your merit, works or deeds to deserve or earn it, it is a FALSE religion.

Scripture tells us over and over that NO ONE will be able to boast before God. Those who fall for an accursed and perverted gospel will be condemned because they did not receive the gift of God through faith.

[annalex]

Does say that in Greek because of the sentence construction.

Please explain:

	English: Douay-Rheims	Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)
	Ephesians
2.	Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of this air, of the spirit that now worketh on the children of unbelief:	εν αις ποτε περιεπατησατε κατα τον αιωνα του κοσμου τουτου κατα τον αρχοντα της εξουσιας του αερος του πνευματος του νυν ενεργουντος εν τοις υιοις της απειθειας
3.	In which also we all conversed in time past, in the desires of our flesh, fulfilling the will of the flesh and of our thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:	εν οις και ημεις παντες ανεστραφημεν ποτε εν ταις επιθυμιαις της σαρκος ημων ποιουντες τα θεληματα της σαρκος και των διανοιων και ημεν τεκνα φυσει οργης ως και οι λοιποι
4.	But God, (who is rich in mercy,) for his exceeding charity wherewith he loved us,	ο δε θεος πλουσιος ων εν ελεει δια την πολλην αγαπην αυτου ην ηγαπησεν ημας
5.	Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved,)	και οντας ημας νεκρους τοις παραπτωμασιν συνεζωοποιησεν τω χριστω χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι
6.	And hath raised us up together, and hath made us sit together in the heavenly places, through Christ Jesus.	και συνηγειρεν και συνεκαθισεν εν τοις επουρανιοις εν χριστω ιησου
7.	That he might shew in the ages to come the abundant riches of his grace, in his bounty towards us in Christ Jesus.	ινα ενδειξηται εν τοις αιωσιν τοις επερχομενοις τον υπερβαλλοντα πλουτον της χαριτος αυτου εν χρηστοτητι εφ ημας εν χριστω ιησου
8.	For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;	τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον
9.	Not of works, that no man may glory.	ουκ εξ εργων ινα μη τις καυχησηται
10.	For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.	αυτου γαρ εσμεν ποιημα κτισθεντες εν χριστω ιησου επι εργοις αγαθοις οις προητοιμασεν ο θεος ινα εν αυτοις περιπατησωμεν

[annalex]

Does Scripture HAVE to say something specifically and precisely the way you want in order for you to believe it?

There is a big difference between "faith is needed for salvation" and "fail alone is needed for salvation". Yes, the difference that big has to be spelled out somehow, by just stating so, or through a parable. Instead, is is clearly negated in the second half of James 2: the proposition of salvation by faith alone is examined, scripture to the contrary is offered, and the whole fallacy is negated. The good works, at the same time, are praised throughout the gospels, e.g. in Ephesians 2:10 or Titus 3:8.

Those, especially, who profess the superstition of "scripture alone" should take the Word of God as written and deal with the consequences.

[Luircin]

Please explain:

***

Oh, simple enough, and I’m talking Romans 3. But Ephesians 2 works as well if we want to get across the idea.

In Greek, the order of words is very important; their grammar is different than ours. In the Greek in Romans 3, the word order places the emphasis on the word ‘NOT.’ Specifically, by placing it before ‘works of the law’ instead of after ‘works of the law,’ Paul is placing special emphasis that works of the law do NOT, no way, no how, never, EVER bring justification. Period. Fullstop. End of statement.

But even if you reject Greek grammar, it doesn’t matter. Paul says that we are saved through faith and NOT through works of the law. And no, ‘law’ doesn’t mean ‘ceremonial law’ and nothing else; that’s utter nonsense. Paul already spoke about ‘the law’ including prohibitions against theft and adultery in Romans chapter 2, and it’s really stupid to think that he’d say ‘oh, THIS law doesn’t have effect any more, but you GOTTA do works from THIS law’ one chapter later without drawing an actual distinction between them. I’d like to believe in a Bible interpretation that doesn’t make St. Paul sound like a self-contradictory idiot.

So we have salvation by faith, and salvation by works of the law, and Paul says that we are NOT, with emphasis, saved by works of the law.

And unless you’re some kind of rampant universalist, or think that we’re saved on account of epic hair or something, there is only one option left if we are not saved by works of the law.

Therefore, that’s faith alone. QED. And Catholic scholars and saints agree that Romans 3:28 should be translated as ‘faith alone.’ Such as Augustine, Ambrose, Origen, Hilary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, and Thomas Aquinas. Also the Nuremberg Bibles, the Italian Bible, the Genevian Bible, and the Venesian Bible also translated as ‘faith alone’ with full agreement and support of Rome.

The Catholics only stopped translating Romans 3:28 as ‘faith alone’ AFTER they wanted to have something to bash Protestants with.

[Luircin]

There is a big difference between “faith is needed for salvation” and “fail alone is needed for salvation”. Yes, the difference that big has to be spelled out somehow, by just stating so, or through a parable. Instead, is is clearly negated in the second half of James 2: the proposition of salvation by faith alone is examined, scripture to the contrary is offered, and the whole fallacy is negated. The good works, at the same time, are praised throughout the gospels, e.g. in Ephesians 2:10 or Titus 3:8.

Those, especially, who profess the superstition of “scripture alone” should take the Word of God as written and deal with the consequences.

***

Logical fallacy: moving the goalposts.

Also you told me that you weren’t accusing us of NOT teaching good works, and now you’re insinuating that Protestants don’t teach good works at all.

Make up your mind.

[boatbums]

There is a big difference between "faith is needed for salvation" and "fail alone is needed for salvation". Yes, the difference that big has to be spelled out somehow, by just stating so, or through a parable. Instead, is is clearly negated in the second half of James 2: the proposition of salvation by faith alone is examined, scripture to the contrary is offered, and the whole fallacy is negated. The good works, at the same time, are praised throughout the gospels, e.g. in Ephesians 2:10 or Titus 3:8. Those, especially, who profess the superstition of "scripture alone" should take the Word of God as written and deal with the consequences.

Of course "good works" are praised throughout the gospels! Nobody is disputing that. But good works - whether of the Law of Moses or any other works of righteousness which we do - cannot and will not save us. It is by the mercy and grace of God that we are saved through faith. That is why that truth is repeated over and over so that NO ONE may boast before man or God.

Those who would rather take the reasonings of mere men based upon their boastful pride of self-righteousness above the actual holy and sacred word of God WILL deal with the consequences of an eternity without Christ.

I remain unconvinced that you know what "grace" means.

[annalex]

we are NOT, with emphasis, saved by works of the law.

True. This is Catholic teaching, Greek and all.

[Luircin]

Then why are you demanding that we do good works in order to get salvation if Catholic teaching is that we’re NOT saved by works?

[boatbums]

Then why are you demanding that we do good works in order to get salvation if Catholic teaching is that we’re NOT saved by works?

Catholics have this little semantical "trick" they play about that. They will claim up one side and down the other that they DO believe we are saved by grace and not works - just not grace through faith alone. But to them "works" must mean the works of the Law of Moses which include the ceremonial laws given to the Jews. What they will not agree to is that when "works" are spoken of in Scripture, it means ANY kind of good works. The perverted gospel of Catholicism is that faith AND good works are necessary for salvation. While accusing Protestants of not believing all of Scripture, they fail to see their own duplicity. Passages such as this from Romans, for example:

Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. (Rom. 4:4,5)

Paul was NOT talking about the Law of Moses here because he just got done talking about Abraham who was justified by faith when the Law of Moses was still 400 years in the future. The adage about trying to nail Jello to the wall is a good word picture of the contortions they have to go through to twist God's word.

The gospel is crystal clear - we are saved by the grace of God through faith and not by works SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST.

[ealgeone]

>>we are NOT, with emphasis, saved by works of the law.<<

True. This is Catholic teaching, Greek and all.

Then it is by faith and faith alone you are saved.

[Luircin]

I note you haven’t responded to the rest of my post about Romans 3 either.

I take it that you’re conceding every other point I made?

[annalex]

The Catholics do not demand of anyone to do works of the law. Governments do that.

[annalex]

reviewed. You are describing Catholicism wrong.

[annalex]

It doesn’t follow. We are saved by grace alone, which gives us faith and it gives us ability to do works of love, as Matthew 25:31-46, shorter version in Romans 2:6-10, explains.

We are not saved by works of law or works for hire.

[annalex]

I don’t care what points you made. If you have a question I did not answer about my Catholic faith, ask plainly and I will answer plainly.

[Luircin]

In other words, you’re continuing with the ‘LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU’ tactic.

Good job disobeying the command from your ‘first Pope’ to have answers ready.

I’ll consider this argument a win for my side, thank you.