Posted on 07/27/2018 5:28:26 AM PDT by Kaslin
Tuesday’s decision by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals means that people in the western U.S. will now be able to openly carry a handgun in public. The decision only applies to districts under the 9th Circuit’s jurisdiction, but it will likely soon affect the rest of the country. It is a huge ruling that strikes down existing state prohibitions in Hawaii and California.
The case involved George Young, who wanted to publicly carry a firearm in the State of Hawaii for personal self-defense. Young applied twice for a handgun permit to carry either openly or concealed, but they denied his application each time. Hawaii’s laws require demonstration of “reason to fear injury to the applicant’s person or property.” Similar rules apply to open carry. But, in fact, Hawaii refuses to acknowledge that anyone has good reason to fear for their safety and is not issuing a single permit.
The Second Amendment was clear when it enshrined the “right of the people to keep and bear Arms.” The Supreme Court has stated: “‘Keep arms’ was simply a common way of referring to possessing arms. . . . At the time of the founding, as now, to ‘bear’ meant to ‘carry.’” As with a previous decision by the 7th and DC Circuits, people have the right to carry. The government can’t stop otherwise law-abiding Americans from any ability to protect themselves outside their home.
Even states that never (Hawaii) or virtually never (California) issue concealed handgun permits will now have to allow people to openly carry handguns in a holster.
Gun control advocates could appeal the three 9th Circuit judges’ decision to the entire 9th Circuit (an en banc decision). The court as a whole is very liberal, and may very well reverse Tuesday’s decision. But such a ruling would definitely be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which would presumably overturn it. This would make open carry legal nationwide.
Or gun control advocates could appeal directly to the Supreme Court, with the same result. President Trump’s election has made all the difference here.
To try to avoid a loss at the Supreme Court, the other option for gun control advocates is to accept their loss in the 9th Circuit and not appeal. Given the likely uproar in liberal Hawaii and California over people openly carrying guns on their hips, these liberal states will likely have to allow people to carry in some way and may revisit their extremely restrictive concealed handgun laws.
Outside of California, Hawaii, and New York, about 8.5 percent of adults nationwide have concealed handgun permits. In California, the percentage is about 0.4%, and in Hawaii it is 0%. This will have to change.
Even if Hawaii doesn’t appeal, the decision will still have ramifications for the rest of the country. The Supreme Court tends to limit itself to cases in which different circuit courts have made contradictory rulings. If other circuit courts rule against open carry, those decisions will be appealed and one will in all probability be accepted by the Supreme Court.
Gun control advocates thought that they had won in 2016, when the entire 9th Circuit ruled in Peruta v. County of San Diego that the Second Amendment does not protect the right to concealed carry. Then the court ignored Supreme Court precedent, probably in the expectation that Hillary Clinton would be elected president. The decision ignored the question of open carry, even though the plaintiffs argued that the 9th Circuit could ban either concealed or open carry, but not both.
The decision to ignore open carry in Peruta will now come back to haunt gun control activists. Elections also matter and with President Trump’s appointments to the Supreme Court, the 9th Circuit’s may realize this time it will have to follow the intent in earlier Supreme Court cases.
Given the overwhelming academic evidence that concealed handgun laws protect people’s safety and how law-abiding permit holders are, it is about time that the courts intervened.
A final outcome for the entire country may still be 4 or 5 years away, but it is just a matter of time. The eight states with very restrictive gun laws are going to have to change their rules.
Current thinking is that if the no-carry states are forced to issue open carry permits, or even better yet, allow open carry with no permit, they will eventually wake up and "steer" people toward concealed carry. Just because there are many people who are uncomfortable with open carry.
Of course this means that they will have to loosen concealed carry regulations. So, maybe we get what we really wanted through the back door.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Now, I think the speculation is very optimistic at this point. While the 9CA found a right to open carry, they also did not address the requirement for a permit and only found that no permits was not constitutional. They sent the case back to the lower court.
It is perfectly possible for the lower court to find that quite burdensome conditions on permits are reasonable, which will result in another appeal and maybe another smackdown.
One of the problems we have is that Diarmuid O'Scannlain, the real mover behind this decision, is 81. He is not going to sit on the 9 CA forever.
Of course, the "bad states" have to balance the fact that the Supremes are changing and while delay may help them in the 9th, it will not help them in the SC. And, if Our Favorite President can appoint some more conservative judges in the 9 CA we may even gain the upper hand there.
My personal bet is that they cut their losses and start issuing very restrictive open carry permits, which eventually are forced to be much less restrictive.
Outstanding! There is a lot of infringement that needs to be struck down, but this is a very good development. We need to get Kavanaugh confirmed and then start having SCOTUS actually take 2nd Amendment cases again.
In the meantime, the way this is making gun grabbers squirm gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
If they do that it will certainly be appealed to SCOTUS and with Kavanaugh seated it will be 5-4. We will have open carry nationwide. Ergo, not just Hawaii and California but also Illinois, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Connecticut will have it rammed right down their throats too. And there will be no appeal.
So by all means gun grabbers, bring it on.
“You sound like a snowflake, ...”
Exactly. Arizona has been open carry since paleolithic times. The only ones who become alarmed are liberal snow birds from shithole states. Even they calm down fairly quickly.
Goes to show you how much our culture has changed in the last 60-70 years. Used to be if you carried concealed you were nefarious one. The person who openly carried may not have been a good guy; at least he wasn't some dastardly underhanded thug, definitely up to no good. All becasue he wasn't openly carrying his firearm.
Most of America is rural.
While I am not an Open Carry fan, I figure of the Cops can Open Carry, any Law Abiding Citizen should be able to do the same.
...and most of its population is not.
My initial point was that both you and ThePatriotsFlag were limiting your statements to certain situations, and applying that conclusion universally.
You cannot do that logically. You were each correct for the limited situations, but you were incorrect in applying that conclusion in a universal manner.
At the end of the day, what matters is the Second Amendment, which is quite clear. My rights should not depend on what bedwetters living in urban areas think.
The statement was that it should be legal, even though at times it can be dumb to open carry.
What brand is that? It appears to have a snap thru the trigger guard, with some sort of tab...a release maybe?
And, my favorite leather color...
I wish the Hearing Protection Act would go thru. I would buy two silencers right off the bat.
As a follow up on this line of thought, I'll throw out there that "back in the day" those who shouldn't have been carrying firearms, for whatever reason, but were got taken out of the gene pool on a much more regular basis that in today's more gentile and enlightened era. More's the pity in that regard, at times.
That is a Bianchi model 82. The gun locks in the holster through the trigger guard when it is inserted. That little lever you see has to be pressed toward your body to release and draw.Would be extremely difficult for someone to disarm you. Superb retention system.I have 2 of them ...one each for Glock 26 and 19.
Evidently you don’t know how us
STUPID cowboys out here in the
west rely on open carry pistols.
In certain situations, concealed
carry is STUPID.
Nice. I see another holster in my future.
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