Pope Francis grants indulgences for Dublin participants

BBC News ^ | 3 Jun 18 | Mark McCleary

[SkyPilot]

Participants attending the World Meeting of Families in August can be forgiven their sins or help a relative speed through purgatory.

Pope Francis has granted a "plenary indulgence" for those taking part.

In Catholic doctrine an indulgence frees you from being punished for your previously committed sins or it can be passed on to dead relatives to shorten their time in purgatory.

Even those following events on TV and radio can achieve a partial indulgence as long as they recite the Our Father, the Creed and other devout prayers.

Martin Luther's opposition to the sale of indulgences was one of the main causes of the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century.

The Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary, the Vatican body dealing with forgiveness of sins, said pilgrims would have to attend confession and Mass, pray for the Pope's intentions and participate in some function during the five-day event.

The use of indulgences in Catholicism is a tradition that goes back to the Crusades in the 11th Century.

[Elsie]

All of the “I”, “me”, etc. — that’s Mary?!

SOmeone sure thinks so!

[Elsie]

MOM!

He's pickin' on me!

[Elsie]

I detect a head about to EXPLODE!!!

[Elsie]

Correctly understood, "Indulgences" is not a heretical doctrine because it does not take away from the work of Christ and the working of the Holy Spirit.

It IS heretical because it ADDS to what Christ has done.

[Elsie]

This establishes my respect for the foundational, historically and logically prior authority of Apostolic Tradition.

 

A simple yes or no:

 

Are the seven churches, mentioned in Revelation, Catholic or not?

[Elsie]

I find it interesting that when Paul was writing to the church at Rome he did not include any of this nonsense about purgatory or indulgences.

And when the 'Catholic Church' wrote to Jerusalem in ACTS 15...

---

  The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 ²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

[Elsie]

We gots Sacraments, Scapulas and Indulgences: Oh My!!

[ealgeone]

Boy, do they ever.

[Elsie]

...A "good deal" was accepted before 70 AD,

Seven churches??

[Elsie]

... the prayers to "Mary", ...

 

 These prayers and devotions are ONLY for souls who are already forgiven and saved.

 

 

Izzat so??

 

 

 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

 

Translation:  "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."

[boatbums]

As Paul said, "Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism." (Colossians 3:25)

An awful lot of dogma surrounding one simple verse of Scripture! It sounds like Catholicism imagines it can supersede the will of God. This verse as well as others such as II Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.", tells us that EVERY thing we do will be accounted for before God. In Colossians, Paul addresses masters as well as servants and I imagine it is a comfort for all that no one gets away with doing wrong to others.

Saying a prayer(s), wearing medals or ornaments, paying alms, etc., cannot/will not let someone escape from giving an account. And that is really what is meant here - GIVE AN ACCOUNT, be held to account for your deeds. Being "repaid" for the wrongs we do to others has to do with that accountability and wrongs have consequences. That really is a GOOD thing. Martin Luther objected to the idea a Indulgences because he said they didn't teach true repentance:

Then in addition, the very profusion of indulgences astonishingly fills up the measure of servile righteousness. Through these nothing is accomplished except that the people learn to fear and flee and dread the penalty of sins, but not the sins themselves. Therefore, the results of indulgences are too little seen but we do see a great sense of self-security and licentious sinning; so much so that, if it were not for the fear of the punishment of sins, nobody would want these indulgences, even if they were free; whereas the people ought rather to be exhorted to love the punishment and embrace the cross. Would that I were a liar when I say that indulgences are rightly so called, for to indulge means to permit, and indulgence is equivalent to impunity, permission to sin, and license to nullify the cross of Christ. Or, if indulgences are to be permitted, they should be given only to those who are weak in faith, that those who seek to attain gentleness and lowliness through suffering, as the Lord here says, may not be offended. For, not through indulgences, but through gentleness and lowliness, so says he, is rest for your souls found. But gentleness is present only in punishment and suffering, from which these indulgences absolve us. They teach us to dread the cross and suffering and the result is that we never become gentle and lowly, and that means that we never receive indulgence nor come to Christ. Oh, the dangers of our time! Oh, you snoring priests! Oh, darkness deeper than Egyptian! How secure we are in the midst of the worst of all our evils! (LW 51:31-33).

[boatbums]

Like numerous Pagan beliefs, the Roman Catholic dogma of Purgatory is akin to Karma.

[ealgeone]

Your post illustrates why understanding verses in context is the key to properly understanding the NT.

Our Roman Catholic friends do not yet understand this concept.

[HarleyD]

Write all you want about your own beliefs, but please refrain from telling untruths about mine.

I did not write untruths about your beliefs. I simply stated what is stated out on the Catholic website, New Advent. But Catholics tend to get a bit testy when their own conflicting doctrine is quoted to them.

Tagline

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Placemarker

[boatbums]

Quite consistent, isn't it? You must certainly see that justice (being paid back) for deeds is promised to "anyone," "everyone", "all men", "all the churches", "each of you" It's impossible to call that an unbiblical doctrine.

Then tell us how you get from there to a place called Purgatory where the temporal punishments due for ones sins are cleansed through their suffering and through the deposit of grace taken from the "Treasury of Merit" and applied to the account of a person through other's prayer(s), Masses, medals, etc.? That certainly isn't Biblical.

[boatbums]

Re: Jeffrey Dahmer - hard cases make bad law

Our human reflex would be that a person who committed such horrible crimes MUST suffer for them. But we really have no idea of the depths of God’s grace. Had Dahmer - who was obviously mentally sick and depraved - been executed for what he did instead of living out his days in prison, would our sense of justice be assuaged? Probably not - you can only die one time and he took many lives. Can we trust God to do what is right and just? I know I can. And even IF that means a truly repentant and believing Dahmer went straight to heaven when he died, I STILL trust God to do what is right and just and I marvel at His amazing grace.

[boatbums]

What Luther objected to was that people were asked to pay money for indulgences. That doesn’t happen anymore.

A. Luther objected to indulgences for far more reasons than people having to pay for them.

B. Yes, it does still happen.

[Mom MD]

Nor did Christ lay down His life so we could pay for our sins by suffering in purgatory. He finished the job we can add nothing. That is the hardest thing for human pride to accept

[Mrs. Don-o]

I brought up the Dahmer case with a real sense of hesitation because we truly do NOT know the interior dispostion or the eternal destination of any other person (unless God actually tells you, as in an obvious miracle or "This day you will be with Me in paradise.")

God's goodness surpasses all imagination; but at the same time, God's chastisement is not a violation of His goodness.

Hebrews 12:5
"For the Lord disciplines the one He loves,
and He chastises everyone He receives as a son."

(This whole passage, in context, is tremendous)

Zecharia 3:19
This third [of the people]I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, 'They are my people,'
and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'