Posted on 06/03/2018 1:46:43 PM PDT by Magnatron
Drinking and firearms don’t mix.
Having a safety on is something I am just not comfortable with. I know it is just a training issue to thumb the safety off but it is still just one more variable to go wrong under life threatening stress.
I used to assume it was a non-issue until my friend lost 2 deer on 2 separate occassions leaving the safety on his lever gun. In both occassions, during the heat of buck fever, he aimed and fired, and even had time to cycle the lever and fire again, thinking his round was a dud each time.
It was only later when calm returned, that he had the presence of mind to check the safety. I will only speak for myself when I say I wold worry about presenting a 1911 on safety and in the stress of self defense, would forget to take the safety off and be dumbstruck why the pistol was not firing. Others are more comfortable believing they will take the safety off. I am not.
With a non safety gun like a Sig or Glock in Condition 2 with a round chambered and ready to fire, it is basically like a revolver. Just aim and shoot and practice using your finger as a safety. Off target, off trigger. On target on trigger.
I am shocked and disturbed how often I see police officers on target but off trigger with a suspect. I think it is horrible training and a recipe for accidental shootings. I understand the philosophy. They dont waste time aiming if they are already aiming at the suspect, but my training is not to do that unless I intend to shoot.
I am baffled that police training does not require officers to hold at low ready unless they intend to sischarge their firearm. Just baffled.
That baffles me too. I don’t point unless I’m intending to fire. I don’t use use a manual safety, my finger takes care of that for me. I’m with you. If your manual safety is on, in the heat of the moment, things can go wrong.
It appears to me that the guy presumably was hyped up, immediately embarrassed and rushed to pick up the pistol before people noticed. in his haste he grabbed the gun with enough force to lift it up and probably thought his finger was on the outside of the trigger guard to gain leverage lifting it, and instead he pulled the trigger.
If the gun fired because he pulled the trigger, he must have had it in his waistband cocked. It went off pretty much as soon as he touched it, barely off the floor.
I’ve had “trainings” when I “lightly” held the pistol and the instructor pulled the trigger to demonstrate that the kick would not throw the pistol out of my hand. He did this with 1 finger and no leverage.
Seems to me what baffles you is the distinction between pointing in on a target and pointing in on a threat.
The safety is on when there is no threat or you are not ready to fire (i.e. holstered). The safety is off when you are either ready to fire (pointed in on a target) or there is a threat and you have just come to the ready in order to address that threat.
I am assuming that when one says they are not comfortable with a 1911 safety being on that they are also smart enough not to holster with a round in the chamber. With a round in the chamber, locked and cocked is the way it was designed. Without a round in the chamber it would be ok to have safety off, but many ranges would not like that practice since no one looking on knows if you have one in the chamber or not. Carrying a 1911 cocked but not locked is a recipe for a trip to the hospital or worse.
I am not a LEO but my defensive training was initially to draw to low ready and then safety off (if one is present) as you point in to the target. More advanced training was to skip the low ready and draw immediately to high retention, then again, safety off (if present) as you extend and point in. Faster sight acquisition going from high retention to pointed in than from low ready.
In either case, if I have decided to go from the ready or high retention to pointed in, that is because I now have a threat I have made a decision needs shooting and my finger is going to be taking up slack at the same time I am extending to point in. I can always decide to go finger off after extending if the threat goes away between the decision to point in and actually being pointed in.
“thought his finger was on the outside of the trigger guard to gain leverage lifting it, and instead he pulled the trigger. “
He was right-handed and picked it up with his left hand. Looked like his ring or middle finger went into the trigger guard.
“If the gun fired because he pulled the trigger, he must have had it in his waistband cocked”
Striker-fired gun. Most likely a glock. The only way you decock is to pull the trigger.
Well his first mistake, other than potentially partying at a nightclub with his weapon not secure, is dropping it in the first place. And he knew this was a BIG mistake, which forced him into the second, not carefully retrieving it.
“Having a safety on is something I am just not comfortable with. I know it is just a training issue to thumb the safety off but it is still just one more variable to go wrong under life threatening stress.
I used to assume it was a non-issue until my friend lost 2 deer on 2 separate occassions leaving the safety on his lever gun. In both occassions, during the heat of buck fever, he aimed and fired, and even had time to cycle the lever and fire again, thinking his round was a dud each time.”
Sounds like you are recommending that you keep the safety off while hunting. I don’t think that was your intent.
“And he knew this was a BIG mistake, which forced him into the second, not carefully retrieving it. “
In a much earlier post I said he may be lucky that his shortcoming was revealed before he got himself killed in a real gunfight.
None of us are actually baffled. We were marvelling at something else heh.
I do not and will not use a manual safety, it’s a recipe for disaster.
He has an IWB holster...but your question still stands.
Such an absolute statement doesn't mean much unless you qualify it. If that's an absolute, you should not be near a gun.
Maybe the gun control people are right. Guns keep falling into the wrong hands. The weapons are at fault. We can’t trust these pieces of metal to keep us safe any more. Magic gun fairy please take away everyone’s guns. Especially the FBI’s.
“. I know it is just a training issue to thumb the safety off but it is still just one more variable to go wrong under life threatening stress.”
Seems like you are a candidate for a ND. Hope no one gets hurt!
You and I share similar concerns
I was waiting for him to respond to your request for qualifying info ...
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