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To: familyop
The end times Bible conspiracy authors have argued that Russia's origins trace back to the ancient nation of "Magog" described in Ezekiel 38-39, this is simply not true biblically or historically.

This myth originated in the mid 1800's is built on historical statements that were deliberately altered, and on the assumption that the similarity of certain words could mean something else in another language.

The Assyrian Royal Court records provide direct evidence and represent an incontestable primary source on this subject, since they were written during the time period in question by people who were directly involved.

The reliable, clear and detailed records of Assyrian Royal Court show they dealt directly with each of these nations about 100 years before Ezekiel wrote. These are the same records that are referred to in Ezra 4:15, 19 and 5:17-6:7. These passages tell how the Jews of the fifth century BC 538 BC–457 BC overcame opposition by the local Persian governor to the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem by referring to these same Assyrian cuneiform court records. They are also the same records Bible scholars now use to provide independent verification and edification of the Bible's historical accounts from about 805 BC to 530 BC.

The Assyrian Court records show dealings with Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Togarmah (Ezekiel 38:3-6), the nations that stretched across ancient Asia Minor (modern Turkey) from west to east. From these records we also learn that the ancient nation of Gomer (Ezekiel 38:6), an enemy of the Assyrians invaded Asia Minor by coming down from an area around the northeast shore of the Black Sea. Archeologists know that the militant leader called "Gog" in Ezekiel 38/39 led a confederacy of these nations against invading Gomer.

Gog is a historical man who the Greeks called Gyges of Lydia. In Gyges of Lydia we have the leader the Assyrians called "Gugu, King of Ludu," and "Gugu of Magugu," who is referred to in the Bible as Gog of Magog. "Magog" simply means "the land of Gog."

In Akkadian ma means land, so in Akkadian Ma- gugu means "the land of Gugu," which becomes our Ma-gog. (Just as the Assyrian eponym for the land of the leader called Zamua is rendered as Ma-zamua).

Magog is an eponym for the ancient nation of Lydia that was in the westernmost part of Asia Minor.

-- the descendents of Lydia intermarried with Greeks, Persians, Romans, Slavs, Germanics etc. etc.

The Assyrians often referred to a new land by the name of the first leader they learned of from this land. -- this is why they called Israel (northern Israel) as the 'land of Omri'

The Assyrians dealt with Lydia through Meshech, who were subsequently defeated by Gomer, and thus the Assyrians finally came to deal with Lydia directly. In the prophecy of Ezekiel 38/39 Gog is being used as a "historical type" of the "antichrist" who is prophesied to come during the end times, and Magog is being used as a "historical type" of "the land of the antichrist."

It has been mistakenly believed that the ancient nation of "Magog" in western Asia Minor was the ancient "tribal name" of the "Scythians," a group of Iranian speaking nomadic tribes from Central Asia (north of Iran) that traveled across the Russian steppes, and came to live in the territory north of the Black Sea. Then, in turn, and again in error, it has been believed that the ancient Scythians were the progenitors of the modern Russians.

The Rus or Rossiyas is derived from the Rus, Varangian warriors adn quite different from the "rosh" of Hebrew which means "chief" -- yeah, it's a title not a real name

In his book The Antiquity of the Jews Josephus says that the Greeks called the "Magogites" the "Scythians" despite the fact that the Greeks did not call the Magogites the Scythians. In this same passage there are other errors in the identification of other ancient nations of Asia Minor. This passage shows that the author did not understand that Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for the Scythians. (Interestingly, the Assyrian word for the Scythians, Ishkuza or Ashguza is similar to the Hebrew word for the Scythians – Ashkenaz.)

the oft quoted statement that has the ancient Roman historian Pliny in his work The Natural History that connects Magog with the Scythians is another forgery. Nineteenth century Scottish Reverend John Cumming is credited as being a leading promoter of the Bible interpretation that calls for Russia invading Israel. In his book The Destiny of Nations Cumming quotes a passage from Pliny's book about Magog which he purposefully altered.

Reverend Cumming on page 126 wrote: "Pliny says 'Hierapolis taken by the Scythians was afterwards called Magog.'"

Pliny on page 439 actually wrote: "Bambyx (a part of Lydia) the other name of which is Hierapolis, but by the Syrians called Magog."

The correct identification of Magog with Lydia and not Scythia is consistent with the ancient texts of the Assyrians, who at various times were either the allies or the foes of the Scythians, but had peaceful dealings with the Lydians, who they also referred to as "Magog."

Net net, Gog and Magog are examples of the ancient enemies, not to be taken as literal names. you can say they are Turkey, but if you mean the genes of the Lydians, then those genes flow in every Western nation today as well as among most Middle Easterners


13 posted on 04/17/2018 4:21:02 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos
"-- the descendents of Lydia intermarried with Greeks, Persians, Romans, Slavs, Germanics etc. etc."

Yes, and migrated to countries around the world to various extents since the years of the intermittent Roman Empire.

"you can say they are Turkey,"

Some in and from Turkey. I forget, sometimes, that perspectives of the Prophets who mentioned the attack against Jerusalem were perspectives of the times of the Greek/Macedonian and Roman empires. Their references to times long before those periods makes it even more difficult to tell others about a study--especially in impromptu social media comments.

"but if you mean the genes of the Lydians, then those genes flow in every Western nation today as well as among most Middle Easterners"

Yes. I simplified far too much, but that is the way with readers and commentaries in social media. The Bible speaks of not only a consolidating, slow military movement from the north towards Israel but also civil war in the nations around the world.

One difficulty that many have had when trying to discuss these matters is that of their belief in having some sort of pure race in each, their own respective country. No country has a pure, original race except for that of the human race.

There have been some interesting finds in contemporary DNA databases, by the way--worth looking into. Before long, we might see maps of the historical migrations of mankind.


21 posted on 04/17/2018 11:56:00 AM PDT by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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