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To: Mrs. Don-o
Thanks--- that "No" is what I was looking for.

I would say anyone can lose one's salvation by final impenitence.

I would not say that at all. I think it’s more accurate to say, instead of “losing” one’s salvation, I would say the odds are, they never had salvation in the first place. One cannot lose what one never had. We must correctly define our terms here, or we really can’t even have a conversation.

525 posted on 01/30/2018 3:48:55 PM PST by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: Mark17
I appreciate your concern about definitions. I am sorry if I misconstrued you.

As I understand it--- correct me if I'm wrong --- you're saying a person who is lost, was never saved. That is true per definition, ~IF~ you define saved as incapable of being lost.

It brings us around in a circle, since if a person says he is saved, and believes he is saved, turns out to be finally impenitent, he is lost and never was saved. He ought not to have said he was: it is presumptuous.

Per definition, the sin of presumption is saying you're now saved no matter what you do. The similar but opposite sin of despair is saying you're now damned no matter what you do.

That's why Catholics generally don't talk about being "saved." It is because that determination is made only at judgment upon the moment of death. Then it is final and ireversible: and it is Christ who judges. We don't even judge ourselves.

1 Cor 4:3-4
I care very little if I am judged
by you or by any human court;
indeed, I do not even judge myself.
My conscience is clear,
but that does not make me innocent.
It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time;
wait until the Lord comes.


526 posted on 01/30/2018 4:28:17 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("All the way to Heaven is Heaven, becase Christ said, 'I am the Way.'" - St. Catherine of Siena)
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To: Mark17
We must correctly define our terms here, or we really can’t even have a conversation.

 

 


'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  


543 posted on 01/30/2018 5:28:41 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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