Medical Marijuana Debate?

Townhall.com ^ | January 25, 2018 | Steve Sherman

[Kaslin]

The hippies of the 70s are old. Time is merciless and none of us get out of here alive. My dad is a baby boomer born in 1944. He enjoyed his time as a 20 and 30 something in the '60s and '70s of America. It was a crazy time marked by free-love, tie-dyed shirts, pot-smoking, a free-wheeling youth, and the chaos of Vietnam.

That was a long time ago. Until a year ago, my dad, now in his early 70s, was diagnosed with Parkinson’s Disease. My dad was a strong man who worked construction much of his life. His parents had lived into their 90s, so we all assumed he had a good 20-year run remaining. We’d all noticed a little shake in his hand at Christmas and by spring it was confirmed to be a ruthless and debilitating neurological disease that has no cure.

It’s a terrifying moment when you have to resign yourself to a fate that only a miracle from heaven can cure. The conversation immediately turns to symptom management. That’s all there is. The only hope is to fight the symptoms off long enough to live another five or 10 years or maybe more if you’re lucky.

So, when the moniker of the 70s, marijuana, is found to be in many cases a miracle drug in controlling those symptoms…it can turn the most die-hard anti-drug hardliner into a libertarian.

If marijuana oil, or pot gummy bears, or an inhaler, or whatever form we choose allows my dad to be a grandfather to my kids a few years longer, then I am for it. It’s time for Congress to get on the right side of federalism and let the states decide this issue. Let the drugs get to the people who need it.

I would not wish my dad’s illness on anybody, but I wonder if Attorney General Sessions would change is bulldog stance on medical marijuana if the next time he put his pen to paper he noticed a slight tremor in his hand. Nobody should take one of the most promising medications away from those who suffer.

Conservatives in Congress have long supported the idea of federalism and the right of states to govern themselves. Right now, Congress is debating the future of the 29 states and the District of Columbia that have passed laws allowing medical marijuana’s use and distribution within the states’ borders. There are a number of conservatives who are fighting to protect federalism from Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ stated intention to free up the Justice Department to prosecute medical marijuana states.

The time is now. Congress is working on finishing up appropriations bills for this year. They’re arguing over a funding rider that prevents the DOJ from prosecuting states that allow medical marijuana. Attorney General Sessions is an aggressive voice to remove that provision from law.

Why? He hates drugs of any kind more than he believes in the states rights to govern themselves. A government closer to the people being governed is always a better government.

Medical Marijuana won’t rise to the level of DACA, but if this provision is removed from the appropriations bill, more Republicans will oppose it on February 8^th when Congress takes up appropriations again.

When President Donald J. Trump was running for office, he unequivocally told a Colorado reporter, Brandon Rittman, when asked if he would allow his Attorney General to shut down adult use of marijuana in Colorado he answered, “I think it should be up to the states, absolutely.” 

It’s time to hold President Trump to that promise.

Trump professed many times his support for medical marijuana and made numerous statements in support of federalism in regards to state medical marijuana laws. Literally issues like this caused many to boldly vote Trump. Constitutional conservatives supported Trump because they believed he would protect federalism and states’ rights to make laws with regard to activities that are conducted within their boundaries.

The DOJ is on the attack and medical marijuana is in their sites. Earlier this month, the Justice Department withdrew the Cole Memo that provided a safe harbor for marijuana operators in states allowing its sale and following eight law enforcement guidelines. Senator Cory Gardner (R-CO) Tweeted that Sessions's withdrawal of the Cole Memo contradicted, “what Attorney General Sessions told me prior to his confirmation.”  Conservative Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) was the chief sponsor of an amendment in 2014 that defunded the federal government’s power to prosecute the use, distribution, possession or cultivation of medical marijuana and Congress voted to support his position 219-189 on May 30, 2014. His efforts were joined in the Senate by Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY). 

This is an issue that has been championed by conservatives who respect federalism from day one. This isn’t about a bunch of people sitting around in VW Vans smoking doobies. This is about my dad being able to walk into my son’s band concert and not need a wheel chair.

Does the DOJ, Trump, and the GOP for that matter, really want to be against that?

[fireman15]

I feel obligated to clarify for a couple of others here the some of the misrepresentations that fr_freak has made about what I have said. I am delighted that some people here have found relief from their devastating medical conditions by using marijuana. But they are the ones who should be made aware of potential side effects observed by medical professionals and testimonials from those who have spent their entire adult lives living with and taking care of people who are long term marijuana users. Twisting my words is a disservice to them. Unlike approved over the counter medications and prescription medications, and even household chemicals such as cleaning products, marijuana in most cases comes with no warning label.

Maybe you feel guilt about all the stashes of hard drugs you stole over the years when you were showing up at dead junkies’ houses?

This is a very typical paranoid theory similar to those concocted by many long term marijuana users.

A number of Freepers on here described EXACTLY how marijuana has helped their medical problems, and you just ignored everything they said and told them you knew better and that marijuana is only for junkies.

I certainly have never made any such statements and have not called anyone here or in other marijuana threads a “junky”. I have relatives, and close life long friends who have are long term users of marijuana for both “medical reasons” and for “recreational purposes. It is from these relationships and my experience interacting with long term pot users at work that I base my conclusion about the negative side effects of long term pot use. The marijuana users here are the ones who should be made aware of the side effects observed by others whether or not they are using it for medical purposes or recreation.

I pointed out the ridiculous reasoning of a study you cited, making NO OTHER COMMENT, and from that, from ONLY THAT, you decided I was a junkie who expected every one in the world to take care of me. You created an entire fantasy about a person you don't know based on a single sentence. LOL

This is the quote that you are referring to:

“Marijuana use was also linked with a variety of factors known to increase cardiovascular risk, such as obesity, high blood pressure, smoking and alcohol use. After researchers adjusted the analysis to account for these factors, marijuana use was independently associated with a 26 percent increase in the risk of stroke and a 10 percent increase in the risk of developing heart failure.

“Even when we corrected for known risk factors, we still found a higher rate of both stroke and heart failure in these patients, so that leads us to believe that there is something else going on besides just obesity or diet-related cardiovascular side effects,” Kalla said. “More research will be needed to understand the pathophysiology behind this effect.”

It was made extremely clear in the quote above that the results of the study were mathematically adjusted to cancel out factors “such as obesity, high blood pressure, smoking and alcohol use.” that are strongly associated with marijuana use. But that they still found a “26 percent increase in the risk of stroke and a 10 percent increase in the risk of developing heart failure.” Without these adjustments, the actual risk of stroke and heart failure is much higher than that among long term pot users.

Yet you responded, “LOL. So the big risk of marijuana is that it might lead to smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol? What kind of nonsensical reasoning is this? If the tobacco and alcohol are a problem, why not make those illegal instead? “

I assumed that you were only pretending to be stupid, so I replied with a playful remark. Your ability to spew out nastiness and make up stuff that you attribute to others is impressive and has managed to confuse a couple other long term marijuana users here. After taking a closer look at your posting history I am still not completely sure what to think, other than you seem to show all the negative cognitive issues that I would normally attribute to long term marijuana use. If you are really unable to understand the meaning of the quote that was the basis of your initial response to me then you defintately have a severe cognitive problem.

[fireman15]

I am very happy that you have found a treatment that works for you to alleviate the symptoms of a debilitating condition and that it has allowed you to see the face of your first grandchild. What a blessing and a miracle!

[fr_freak]

I have a friend who has had glaucoma since high school in the 1980s. At some point in the late 1980s/early 1990s, he and his regular eye doctor conducted their own experiment, whereby my friend went in for his eye pressure check up, went out to the parking lot for a bit of a “break” and then came back in for another eye pressure exam. The results were significant, and he has maintained his usage ever since, at least partly with the glaucoma in mind. He is currently a professional working for the state of California as an environmental engineer.

[fr_freak]

Hey pal, Mr. Glorious All-knowing fireman15, don't try to backpedal from your comments now like a coward. You went all in on the judgmental BS right from the get go. You were insulting and nasty darn near from your first comment, especially to me.

You claim now that "I am delighted that some people here have found relief from their devastating medical conditions by using marijuana, but yet you crapped all over anyone who claimed that marijuana had natural medicinal value, even if they were making that claim from personal experience. Anyone can read the thread.

You also came out insulting me from the get go, when I did not insult you at all, but simply pointed out the inherent fallacy in the quote from a study you cited. I said nothing against you. You went straight to insults: "Maybe you should try reading the entire paragraph when you are not stoned; it might not seem so funny but it might have some additional meaning." , then when I told you not to be a pompous ass, you went to this: "...people like you, who feel deep down that our society has an obligation to wait on them hand and foot after laziness and poor choices cause them to become a burden on everyone else."

You led with insults even when I tried to avoid them, and then started posting accusations against me and my personal character when the only thing you know about me is literally my screen name on FR. Face it, pal, you're just a nasty piece of work, a pompous guy who thought he would waltz in here and tell everybody what's what, as if you have omniscience about pharmacology, pharmaceuticals, people's health, and the personal lives of posters who respond to you, and all you did was make yourself look like a belligerent fool.

In fact, your belligerence and obtuseness was so severe, I was actually starting to think you were just trolling me and everyone else here, just a guy having fun winding people up, and I still don't know if that's the case.

I'm going to say this to you and all the other drug warriors who claim to have this grand secret wisdom about marijuana that the rest of us mere mortals don't have: the reason we don't believe you and think you're nuts is because we've known and observed people who have made use of marijuana long term and we know the hysteria is far over-blown, if not complete Reefer Madness BS, and so some guy wandering in here telling us that all marijuana users are psychotic serial killers or some such nonsense just looks like a liar and a fool.

What is perhaps most important, is that your personal biases and ignorance of proper evaluation of cause and effect won't allow you to differentiate between the case of a regular marijuana user, and a regular marijuana user who also uses LSD and cocaine, or a regular marijuana user who became such to alleviate an existing mental health issue, as examples. If a bong was within 100 feet of a guy with a psychotic episode, then it was because of marijuana. Never mind the three syringes, glass pipe and empty bottle of Jack Daniels, along with the bottle of Xanax.

You and others like you are not interested in an actual conversation about the issue, or a proper and unbiased evaluation of the evidence, or a meaningful discussion of implications. You just come in and do nothing but condescend and insult, and then are shocked when people still don't agree with you. Quite frankly, I should have seen you for what you are after the first reply. This entire "conversation" has been nothing but a disgusting waste of time with a silly blowhard (that's you, fireman15, in case you were struggling).

And with that, I'm done. I officially sign off of this ridiculous excuse for human discourse. May God have mercy on your soul.

[little jeremiah]

I’ve had back and forths with dopers on FR and elsewhere for many years.

This thread is a typical example, except fireman15 has given much more informative and genteel comments than most threads about this topic have.

But the anger, personal attacks,complete lack of rational thinking, complete refusal to admit or see that there is the slightest downside to mj use or legalization, is SOP. It is obvious the mj users have one goal, one purpose, and one fixation in life - mj.

As some here may know, I used to smoke mj, a lot of hash, and a few other drugs, many many years ago when the THC was a small fraction of what it is now. I’ve also known some habitual users and experienced what relating to them is like.

No one can lie to me about what it does.

[little jeremiah]

Meant to ping you to the above since I mentioned you.

[dsc]

“If it were an effective treatment for various maladies with no nasty side effects drug companies would be all over it.”

You keep saying that, but it is not true. Federal law makes it a practical impossibility even to conduct research, much less develop products.

[fireman15]

I wish you well and am sorry that I inadvertently contributed to you spinning yourself up. As far as who was nastier to who first or whatever... unlike a conversation in person there is a written record here all the way back to your first post in 2002. You have established a pattern of not playing nice with anyone who you have a disagreement with. I understand that you will be offended by anything that I say. But that is not my intention.

I thank you for helping me to remember what an incredible life that I have had. Occasionally I get stressed out by people like you and forget.

I have been married to the same woman for many decades. We have great kids and grandkids are all so amazing and who love us. What a great Christmas we all had together this year. After a great home made dinner featuring prime rib we opened presents. Then it actually snowed on Christmas eve and I was able to drag my grandkids around on sleds behind our tractor.

I had a wonderful job where I was able to get paid for helping people. And it was very exciting at times also. How great is that? Now I have a great retirement.

I have had incredible hobbies. I once was a champion bicycle racer, but since I have been married my wife and I have tandem bicycles that we take on frequent long rides. One of our favorite rides is from North Bend and up through the 2 mile long tunnel on the John Wayne trail at the top of Snoqualmie Pass.

I started out jumping off of cliffs with hang gliders, and then got an ultralight airplane. We started flying general aviation airplanes and use the one we have owned for the last 25 years to fly to amazing roller coaster parks and other fun destinations all over the country.

We own two houses one that has over an acre on a small airport with a large hangar that holds our two airplanes and our 1942 Cadillac that I restored from a rusty hulk.

I have been working on restoring a house from 1900 for the last couple years and that has been incredibly fun also. I could go on and on. I have of course also faced incredible challenges and heart break. But I have really lived my life.

My wife has her own incredible hobbies and past times. She is an incredible person. She was the Northwest Aerobics Dance Instructor champion when I met her. She has never lost her figure even after three kids and still gets mistaken for a well known movie star frequently.

So after all that here is the punch line... Thank God that social media didn’t even exist when my wife and I were young.

I feel extremely sorry for you... You are a bitter person who seems to be looking for other people to fight with. You have said in previous posts that you have bad credit and that you have never purchased a home. You obviously have not been able to establish a long term relationship with a woman, get married and raise children. Do you even have any interesting past times or hobbies? If so you have never shared anything about them here. (I looked through your posts back to the beginning.)

You would be so much happier if you gave up on social media, and gave up on marijuana. You should work on getting over your problems with women. Try to form a real loving relationship. Even though you have said in previous posts that you don’t want to because the country is going to hell, have and raise children. Make some real friends not on social media. Find some interesting and productive past times that challenge you.

Or you can just keep doing what you are doing and waste the rest of your life arguing and end up in the same dead end twenty years from now. I know that you are an incredible and intelligent person... stop wasting your life. If there is one thing that I have learned... it goes by in a flash.

[fireman15]

Thanks for the ping! I have been working really hard on the old house that we have been restoring and have been fooling around on this thread for the past couple of days when resting. I feel bad that some people were offended by my comments and that I let myself be sucked into a nasty conflict with fr_freak.

I think that it is great that you were able to dump the stuff that was holding you back and get on with your life. Very few people are actually able to do that.

Unfortunately my extended family has had a lot of problems with addictive substances. My grandmother on my mother’s side was half Sioux Indian and half Norwegian Eskimo (Sami). My grandfather emigrated from Northern Norway and he had a problem with alcohol despite being a genius who could figure out anything and a very successful small businessman. On my father’s side there have been a lot of problems as well.

So I was raised from an early age with stern warnings from both of my parents that our family has bad problems with addictive substances. We never had alcohol at all. I have no doubt that if I had started drinking or smoking pot that substance abuse would most likely have killed me by now. Instead I have had a fabulously rewarding life and consider myself one of the luckiest people in the world.

I went on so many suicides during my career. Most of them were young people with substance abuse problems. Some of them were incredible people. What a heartbreak! And what a waste.

[TheStickman]

“No one can lie to me about what it does.”

Yet you seem unable to accept that for many of us what cannabis does is medicinal.

[little jeremiah]

I can related a bit to your history. One parent was an alcoholic, and may have had some kind of pill habit. Everything was very secretive. Aunt was too. One of my siblings smokes mj daily for years and has retreated to a tiny circle of behavior and associates and won’t speak to me or open mail; although I have never berated or even criticized this person for anything, but since my views are known, I am persona non grata. I have known others habituated to mj, and have a old friend who is an alcoholic and goes on/off wagon all the time. I have been to Al Anon and Narc Anon with this friend.

I was freed from all drugs and alcohol right around when I turned 20; I cannot imagine what kind of life I would have had if that had not happened.

I don’t hate people who are fettered by drug or alcohol use; I am sorry for them. There is help. But to those who promote it, grow it, sell it - I am angry because they harm others and create more users.

[fireman15]

I don’t hate people who are fettered by drug or alcohol use; I am sorry for them. There is help. But to those who promote it, grow it, sell it - I am angry because they harm others and create more users.

That is my feeling and issue also. We have several people who post regularly that claim that marijuana has NO negative side effects. I know from many personal experiences that marijuana does have many negative consequences.

I am very sympathetic to the person in this thread who claims that marijuana helps with her eye condition. I have an eye condition known as central serous retinopathy that mimics macular degeneration and has caused me to have serious loss of vision on occasions, sometimes for weeks or months. It is one of the primary reasons that I retired as it is aggravated by stress, chemical exposures and corticosteroids such as prednisone.

My eyes were burned when I was working at a large industrial chlorine leak and the wind shifted. This aggravated my problem with central serous retinopathy to the point that I became legally blind for a period of time.

[fr_freak]

Hello fireman,

A few days have gone by in this thread, enough time for you to get yourself a bit more calm and sober, so I was wondering if you were ready to apologize to everyone for your disruptive and childish behavior. Are you ready?

[fireman15]

Welcome back! I was a little worried about you. I found an activity that is almost as much fun as smoking pot, legal everywhere and a whole lot cheaper!

[fr_freak]

It’s really a cute cartoon. It would have been nice if you had had some sense of humor earlier on, but I guess, in your condition, sometimes you’re just really angry and cranky. Glad to see you’re feeling better.

[Bonemaker]

I am of your dad’s generation...actually a few years before and agree with your argument on drugs in general and marijuana in particular. However, “It was a crazy time marked by free-love, tie-dyed shirts, pot-smoking, a free-wheeling youth, and the chaos of Vietnam..” a whole bunch of us were not amused by that era. It seems that history is repeating itself as we speak and ever since Obama was first elected.

[Bonemaker]

“My comment is about the rhetorical technique of victimhood. I oppose that method of political blackmail.”

You are confusing genuine actual real life suffering people with the faux blocs of filthy democrats who other filthy democrats exploit for political purposes. In other words, a person with Parkinsons is not the same as some jagoff who wants to use the ladies room.

[Bonemaker]

““If it were an effective treatment for various maladies with no nasty side effects drug companies would be all over it.”

Read the inserts and warnings on all OTC and prescription drugs. They almost all have “nasty side effects” many of which are far more dangerous and potentially fatal than weed.

[dsc]

I don’t know who said “If it were an effective treatment for various maladies with no nasty side effects drug companies would be all over it,” but it wasn’t me.

[Bonemaker]

Should have gone to fireman15. Sorry about that.