Poland cries foul as EU triggers 'nuclear option' over judicial independence

theguardian.com ^ | December 20, 2017 | Daniel Boffey and Christian Davies

[Berlin_Freeper]

The Polish government has accused the European commission of a politically motivated attack after it triggered a process that could see the country stripped of voting rights in Brussels, over legal changes that the bloc claims threaten the independence of the country’s judiciary.

In a highly symbolic moment, Poland’s fellow 27 member states were advised by the commission on Wednesday that the legislative programme of Poland’s government was putting at risk fundamental values expected of a democratic state by allowing political interference in its courts.

“Within a period of two years a significant number of laws have been adopted – 13 in total – which put in serious risk the independence of the judiciary and the separation of powers,” the vice-president of the commission, Frans Timmermans, told reporters in Brussels. “Judicial reforms in Poland mean that the country’s judiciary is now under the political control of the ruling majority. In the absence of judicial independence, serious questions are raised about the effective application of EU law.”

Timmermans, a former Dutch diplomat, added: “We are doing this for Poland, for Polish citizens.”

[Architect of Avalon]

Good plan.

[Bonemaker]

Are you in Berlin?

[Savage Beast]

When the bureaucrats who run the EU talk about a nuclear option, they mean it literally.

[faithhopecharity]

EU = Fourth Reich.

[hal ogen]

Poland...for your own good and sovereignty, leave the abomination called eu.

[grania]

From afar, it’s hard to understand why Poland, Hungary and maybe Romania don’t put aside their past differences and unite to be a neutral buffer between the EU and Russia.

[MeganC]

“Are you in Berlin?”

Nein. Ich bin in Wyoming!

[MeganC]

“From afar, it’s hard to understand why Poland, Hungary and maybe Romania don’t put aside their past differences and unite to be a neutral buffer between the EU and Russia.”

Because that worked out so well for Ukraine?

[Bonemaker]

Entschuldigen Sie bitte. That was intended for berlin freeper.

[teeman8r]

ExitPole... they have been my favorite for the nexit country to leave the EU eww

[Krosan]

95% of the Poles would welcome that, but they are rather split on this Court Reform. Even many of the supporters of this admit it is unconstitutional and violates the separation of powers, but they say the separation of powers was already violated with the existing system.

I think they’ll figure something out.

[Gene Eric]

Do the Poles feel they’re benefiting from the EU commitment?

[Krosan]

Absolutely. They are among the most pro-EU countries there is. The current issue is that free Poland’s laws are quite new and they have problems that need to be ironed out. Here is one case where already problematic law is changed in problematic way. What is needed here is statesmanship by all specters of Polish political forces. Rule of law has a value of it’s own.

This kind of reminds me of when I watched crime series some 25 years ago. In Agatha Christie ones the detective listed his findings and the perp always ran proving theirselves guilty. I figured why they ran since detectives story would need to be proven. And then in Miami Vice the obviously guilty walked because search warrant had mistakenly listened a wrong address.

I think there is a balance between doing what is right and respecting the rule of law as in extreme situations you just have to say F the law, but I don’t think this is the situation here right now and sadly the respect for the benefits of rule of law over long term is what we lack here in this unlucky part of the world. This is one of the things we should learn (and largely have learned) from America because there is a slippery slope here. At one point you might cheer people saying “F the law” when they are bringing in obvious criminals, but more often than not they are going to go down this slope and then the “F the law” will go to just their opponents and perhaps later to you.

[Krosan]

... oh and what I forgot was that - press is scandalizing it with their headlines. For the “nuclear option” the EU would need unanimous vote, that they won’t get. What they currently seek is a “warning” that needs about votes 20 out of 28 (forgot the exact numbers), but warning is just a warning and nothing nuclear.

[Gene Eric]

I’m turning in. I’ll follow up tomorrow.

BTW, are you a native Pollock? I have a solid strand in my blood.

[Matt_DZ_PL]

Intermarium is an outdated initiative and its name comes from the prewar times. Today, it's TRIMARIUM project, for the time being within the EU. The name may be slightly different and a little misleading. Anyway, the realities of 1920s and 30s are quite different than the contemporary ones.

Trimarium is still under construction because it's gonna be a big and expensive protect for the Middle European countries to become independent from Germany's energetic hegemony and its love attraction to Moscow (Nord Stream II).

A few years inside the EU has been enough to say that Germany has the same old Nazi tendencies as before. Hegemony and total dominion in Europe is all they can think of.

Happily, we (Eastern and Middle Europe) woke up in time...Angela's Islamic kick was strong enough to wake up but also to spread the eyes wide to see Germany's real intentions.

TRIMARIUM ENERGETIC  AND COMMUNICATION PROJECT

The union for liquid gas (supplied mainly by the USA)  from the Baltic hub in Poland (near Szczecin) to the Adriatic one in Croatia; the second reason: building The Carpathian Highway structure from Estonia to Bulgaria.