Curve where Amtrak train derailed in Washington has speed limit of 30 mph

The Seattle Times ^ | December 18th, 2017 | By Mike Baker , David Gutman and Mike Lindblom

[Mariner]

The Amtrak train that derailed Monday morning on its inaugural trip through a faster railway route was supposed to slow dramatically before entering the curve where the crash occurred.

The speed limit at the curve where the train crosses Interstate 5 is 30 miles per hour, said state transportation department spokeswoman Barbara LaBoe, while the speed limit on most of the track is 79 mph. She said speed-limit signs are posted two miles before the lowered speed zone and then just before the zone.

“Engineers are trained to slow trains according to posted speeds,” she said.

Daniel Konzelman, who was driving on I-5 south parallel to the train, said he was traveling at 60 mph or more and watched the train pass his vehicle about a half-mile before the crash. A website that monitors locations and speeds of Amtrak trains, transitdocs.com, reported that the train was going about 81 mph shortly before the derailment, The Associated Press reported.

Russell Quimby, a consultant who was previously an investigator-in-charge for the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), said it appeared to him that the derailment was caused by speed. He said the track appeared relatively undisturbed, so it seemed unlikely that something knocked the train off the track, and he noted that it appeared the train drove in a straight line, missing the turn.

[ilovesarah2012]

Well, ny first thought was his name would be Mohammed.

[ilovesarah2012]

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20160517.aspx

[ilovesarah2012]

And if it was a woman? Do you think she was putting on make-up? The Philly engineer was a guy.

[ilovesarah2012]

The engineer made the emergency call so assuming he/she survived.

http://www.king5.com/mobile/article/news/local/listen-emergency-we-are-on-the-ground-radio-call-from-amtrak-derailment/281-500399625

[ilovesarah2012]

This article says it was the conductor but the news report I heard this morning said engineer.

[ilovesarah2012]

This says engineer.

http://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/amtrak-derailment-train-engineer-s-audio-captures-immediate-aftermath-1119199811936

[fireman15]

I heard his voice on the emergency call. Didn’t sound like an AA type.

You heard the conductor's voice on the 911 call, NOT the engineer. He has most likely been instructed to keep his mouth shut if he wants to stay out of jail. The people who should be put in jail are the politicians and upper management at Sound Transit who wasted $800 Million dollars of taxpayer money improving the "bypass" shortcut to save a handful of peoples a minimal amount of time.

If they had not lied about everything even using $20 Million dollars in advertising... then the money could have been used to improve the tunnel under Pt. Defiance on the mainline which actually would have helped our rail situation in Western Washington. I believe this train was destroyed an engineer's career was destroyed and these people were injured and died all to perpetuate the belief that well over $800 Million dollars was not completely wasted. The "bypass" route takes longer than traveling on the mainline if run at safe speeds.

[DoughtyOne]

I'm going to look into this some more. My emphasis will be what other excessive speed and curve related accidents look like.

The one in Philadelphia looked like this. I was not thinking of it when I made my comments here. I just know what centrifugal force is like.

Every car going around that curve would have had massive energy built up headed toward the outside of the curve. I remain unconvinced you overcome that with the accordion theory, but I'm not convinced that can't be a factor. I'll come back.

Here's a picture to think about in the meantime.

Excessive speed hits curve (in this instance 105 mph approximately)

How many cars do you see on the inside of the curve?

[ilovesarah2012]

This says engineer.

http://www.ajc.com/news/national/here-what-the-amtrak-engineer-said-his-call-for-help-after-the-washington-derailment/Ou0LJOa0FOH3dyYqKEVhlK/

[fireman15]

The idiots at MSNBC couldn’t explain the difference between the conductor and the engineer if their lives depended on it. For the umpteenth time this was the conductor not the engineer.

[laplata]

Mine, too. We were both assuming the probable or possible, I guess. We can’t be blamed for that.

[fireman15]

The same goes for the idiots at CNN. This was the conductor. One would think that people would realize after the election that the news media are a bunch of buffoons these days.

[ilovesarah2012]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/charges-dropped-against-amtrak-engineer-in-fatal-derailment-20170912.html

[kjam22]

I’ve owned a couple of cars that cornered like they “were on a rail.” I guess they actually handled better than that.

[gandalftb]

I was not really mistaken.

Tacoma Rail has trackage rights over Sound Transit Line between Dupont and South Tacoma, (walks like a duck, etc.). Technically we’re both right, does it matter to FR?

I did not say that weight was the cause of the crash. My point was that heavy trains should have been used to establish the correct track speed. In fact the maximum track speed was well established.

Agreed, this bypass has questionable benefit for passenger transport. However, there is a significant benefit to the Port of Tacoma and Ft. Lewis, but they hardly need 80 mph trains.

I am very familiar with the track route, and particularly in Tillicum they have to keep the track speeds down, big safety issue.

[djf]

Yup. The NTSB has confirmed that the train was traveling at 80 MPH, according to the data recorders in the back of the train.

And it was doing this around a 30 MPH zone.

Captain of the Titanic, anyone?

[fireman15]

There is no accountability these days. The speed of this train was being pushed to make it look like the new $800 million dollar bypass was faster than the mainline. But the article you have just linked to demonstrates that not only will the people in charge who were pressuring the engineer to make the train go faster will not be held accountable. Even the government employee engineer will not be held accountable.

[ilovesarah2012]

Dispatch audio also indicated that the engineer survived with bleeding from the head and both eyes swollen shut.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-washington-amtrak-derailment-20171218-story.html

I don’t understand spending so much money to cut the trio by ten or fifteen minutes. Who profited bigly from this boondoggle?

[fireman15]

They ran the same train over the same tracks in a “test run” loaded with muckity ups on Friday. Their time was slower than the mainline which caused great concern. They didn’t want the public noticing that the lies they told to make the case for the track improvements. This was all empire building for Sound Transit.

My cousin worked for Tacoma Rail up until very recently. They couldn’t have cared less about the “improvements” Sound Transit has been making. The ongoing work that has been done has screwed up their operations big time and will continue to do so. Their has been no benefit to Ft Lewis or Tacoma Rail.

The money should have been spent on improving the mainline, specifically the tunnel under Point Defiance which has become a bottle neck and will continue to be a bottle neck until common sense one day prevails. Which I guess means it will always be a problem.

[fireman15]

I don’t understand spending so much money to cut the trio by ten or fifteen minutes. Who profited bigly from this boondoggle?

I am not sure where the media is coming up with this ten or fifteen minute in improvement of time. It was only suppose to save 4 minutes. Testing has now shown that the run is actually slower than when the Amtrak train takes the mainline. If this isn't somehow swept under the rug by millions more spent on PR by Sound Transit this could turn into a pretty big scandal. As far as who “profited bigly”... Sound Transit is a hugely corrupt agency with many influential individuals and entities profiting greatly.

And by the way I do not mean to be speaking harshly to you. I know you are only repeating what “credible” sources are saying.