Or:
Shoestring Machine Gun & ATF Letter
This trick has been around since at least WW2 and according to some vets I knew was first used on the Garand.
Posted on 10/05/2017 11:34:15 AM PDT by DCBryan1
The powerful National Rifle Association on Thursday backed "additional regulations" on devices that boost semi-automatic weapons' firing rates, like the tools used by the shooter in the Las Vegas massacre.
In a statement, the influential gun rights group's Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox urged the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to review the legality of so-called bump stocks. They stopped short of pushing Congress to pass a bill banning or regulating the devices.
Still, the NRA's support for more regulation of bump stocks could give Republican lawmakers more breathing room to pass a bill regulating them.
The statement came as bipartisan momentum for regulating the devices built on Capitol Hill.
Asked about the growing momentum for a ban on bump stocks, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the president is "open to having that conversation," but stressed that Trump is "a strong supporter of the Second Amendment," and that any discussion of gun laws is premature.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...
“Need to regulate/confiscate fingers and shoulders.”
There’s an old saying that a machine gun is world’s most efficient means of turning perfectly good cash into noise and smoke.
If it wasn’t the dumbest thing I’ve read today it’s very close.
I don’t suppose those sniveling weasels give refunds to paid-up life members either...
Nothing quite like an unfounded emotional reaction to an unfounded emotional reaction.
But at least the all “feeeeeeeeeel” better.
That's what makes banning these a horrible idea... because these do NOT turn a semi-auto into a full auto. It still requires one trigger pull for every round fired. It merely enabled you to pull that trigger faster.
By passing a law to ban "fast trigger pulling" you're essentially saying it's okay for Congress to pass more laws like that. I'm telling ya, they'll pass some feel-good/do-nothing law that forces gun makers to install a rate-limiting device on all new firearms. Sale of pre-2018 rifles will be strictly regulated by the Schumer Amendment and you'll have to get ATF sign-off and pay the tax for your stamp.
Sound like a good idea? No? Then don't let Congress tell us how fast we should be able to pull a trigger, or that's exactly what will happen.
NO WAY!
The entire 1934 National Firearms Act is unconstitutional.
Understand that the Founders wanted the militia - average, ordinary citizens - to be as well armed as the standing army (which they wanted to be small, to avoid tyranny). Evidence of this can be found in the body of the Constitution, where Congress was given the power in Article 1, Section 8 to issue “Letters of Marque and Reprisal.” Those are, to put a not-so-fine point on it, basically Congressional permission to be a pirate - to raid enemy shipping (including their naval vessels), kill however many people you need to, and keep what you can carry away. Well, how in the Hell do you - as a civilian - attack enemy merchant and (especially) naval vessels without crew-served cannon? Such weapons are NOW (thanks to the ‘34 NFA) treated as “destructive devices” (as is each individual round of ammunition) - so it is CLEARLY unconstitutional.
And you would give up part of our rights PERMANENTLY (because now people CAN buy pre-1986 full autos), in exchange for them LETTING us carry the means of self-protection in any state. This ALSO is part of the 2nd Amendment - the “bear” part of “keep and bear.”
You are effectively proposing to cut off your left hand, so that they only take your right hand, and not your right arm up past the elbow. Your policy recommendation is absolutely defeatist, and it plays right into the hands of people like Schumer, Feinstein, Obama, Clinton, etc.
Again, NO WAY! NO F’ING WAY!
They are legal. Well, it varies state by state, but at the federal level you apply for your Form 1 or Form 4, pay your $200 tax, and then wait 6-8 months for background check and (hopefully) approval. Then proceed to the store to pick up your can (or if self-manufacturing, you can then machine it yourself and engrave your serial #).
In my state of Washington, until not too long ago you could own a suppressor but not use it. They finally remedied that weird catch-22 a couple years back so you actually get to use them now.
States have varying laws... I think it was something like 42-44 states, they're legal to own and use. Some states have other restrictions on other NFA items. WA for instance doesn't allow full auto. Other controlled items are short barreled shotguns and rifles (SBS/SBR). Those are also on a state-by-state basis. And same deal... you apply for it, pay the tax, and then wait. When you're approved - congrats, you get to take a hacksaw to your barrel and do the engraving.
The other prohibited item (am I forgetting any?) is the "any other weapon" which is where the ATF gets to be a little fuzzy. It might include guns disguised as cell phones, or spring-loaded blades (think switchblades), or whatever. The AOW category is where I would guess they'll throw bump-fire stocks... any rifle fitted with one would be classified an AOW and require the stamp. If I had to guess.
The evil genius of it is that the ATF could, in theory, do that now, without congress, because they've been given pretty wide latitude to regulate stuff like that. It could be challenged, but the ATF has regulated other stuff in the past that used to be legal and the ruling stuck, so...
In the 1920s, the National Revolver Association, the arm of the NRA responsible for handgun training, proposed regulations later adopted by nine states, requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon, five years additional prison time if the gun was used in a crime, a ban on gun sales to non-citizens, a one day waiting period between the purchase and receipt of a gun, and that records of gun sales be made available to police.
and
Still, they are apparently quite difficult to own legally because of the taxes, the forms, and the wait.
it will just be replaced with a spring stock and people will just practice to achieve the same effect.
in the end the left will DEMAND banning semi auto....for the children...
Or:
Shoestring Machine Gun & ATF Letter
This trick has been around since at least WW2 and according to some vets I knew was first used on the Garand.
“I personally, have no use for these contraptions because I like having more control over the ultimate destination of my rounds, but I do not care. Bans on hardware like this is stupid and completely useless.”
However, I take some issue with your statement that “bans on hardware like this is stupid and completely useless.” Yeah, it is stupid and useless - from OUR point of view. But from the POV of the Schumers and Feinsteins, you accomplish several important things:
1) You establish that inanimate objects DO cause crime. This gives you a BIG wedge to do the same thing later with more significant items;
2) You reinforce with your base and your supporters in Congress that making enough noise gets you somewhere - “somewhere” being defined as a political victory. They don’t give a damn about actual effectiveness of the legislation - in fact, I’m convinced that they are happier when a new law doesn’t work, because then they can come back for more saying “we’re not trying hard enough, we can’t keep compromising with the NRA.”
3) You tick off many NRA members, causing it to lose numbers and donations.
Understand that this is a long-term battle for the soul of our society. The other side wants us to be defenseless. They understand that it is going to take a LONG time to do that, but they never give up, they never pass up on even the smallest legislative, judicial or regulatory victory, and use ALL of them to win in the court of Public Opinion. We have backed up far enough, mostly without getting a single thing in return. It is time to stop giving, and start TAKING BACK.
Another thing to look at is how the government treats us now, with over 400 million guns in civilian hands. Now consider what they would do if there were effectively none...and EVERY victory that the other side has makes that very scary scenario more possible.
“Never give in. Never, never, never give in.” - Winston Churchill
I concur.
Had a boss tell me onetime, "Watch the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves."
Been living that way ever since.
Still, they are apparently quite difficult to own legally because of the taxes, the forms, and the wait.
I didn't know much about it either and thought it was much harder than it ended up being. Last July (2016) the NFA amended the rules for gun trusts specifically (the infamous "Rule 41F" change) which was going to make it a little harder to setup gun trusts.
Gun trusts are just a nice way to setup a group of people, could just be you and your spouse, to both be able to possess a suppressor. So that if I own one and I die, I can legally pass it on to someone else in the trust.
You can get a suppressor outside a trust, but for whatever reason it's more difficult... go figure. Anyway, the rule change that went into effect last year made anyone in the trust have to get fingerprinted and background checked. Up until then, you form your trust and apply for the stamp using the trust, and they'd still background check the trust, but now I guess they do a more thorough check on everyone, have to include a photo (as if you were getting a passport), etc.
All in all, the new rules aren't too bad, but there was still a rush of people filing before the July 2016 deadline, including myself. Unfortunately that meant an even longer wait time for approval.
I think mine took 8 months from when the check cleared to when I got the a-ok. My form 1 and form 4 applications were filed almost the same day and got approved within days of each other.
So... not terribly hard to do as long as you can pass the background check, pay $200 (in addition to the cost of the can itself), and are very patient.
One of the surprising things I learned was that the ATF has (or had) a pretty nice e-file system where you could file online for a self-manufactured device. I think the rule change also did away with that, so you have to do a paper filing now on those. Makes sense since you have to get fingerprinted, send in photos, etc. etc.
One very nice side-effect of Rule 41F change is that you no longer have to get local law enforcement to sign-off on your application. It didn't matter to me (no change where I live, and maybe it didn't apply to trusts), but in some restrictive counties, you could have some uppity Sheriff's office who refused to do that. Now they're out of the loop, except you have to notify them.
In short, if you want one, check your state's laws, setup a gun trust (pay the money to get a legally vetted form from any of your local attorney's who specialize in it). Figure out if you want your trust to just be you (simpler form) or multiple people (more complicated form...pay the lawyer a bit more). Pick out the suppressor you want from your local dealer and they'll help you fill out the application including the info from your trust and all paperwork. Include a $200 check, and... wait.
Getting suppressors isn't cheap, but when you got to the range, or if you hunt with one (I don't hunt, unless metal targets count?) you'll really appreciate it. That's why they call that proposed law the "hearing protection act"... they ain't kidding. I still wear hearing protection (not least of all because I may not be the only one shooting at the range), and as noted, it doesn't make the movie "zip...zip" sounds. It's just a little bit less of someone yelling in your ear, and more like someone yelling in your ear from a few feet further away. :)
They pull stunts like this all the time, not just once in a while. NRA is the Republican control organization. Let’s not forget that they authored government background checks.
“I did know that converting semi auto to full is a felony....”
“... so I assumed these things would be illegal. I guess when ATF issued the regs they screwed this one up to.”
Gee wiz its sure sounded like full auto to me and I am someone who would know. Either way the effect is the same despite some minor tech difference.
I fully support people who want full auto, just go through the process and get the license. These cheep workarounds risk us loosing access to the weapons we need.
Will banning bump stocks make a bit of difference, of course not we both know that. But the left will use this issue to strip us of all semi auto access.
The NRA is just being strategic (I am not a member BTW) again you pick the hill you want to die on and this is not good ground to wage a winning battle.
I’m not familiar with that factoid. If true, it certainly puts things in perspective.
Thanks for the mention.
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